Forging Resilience

23 Josh Fletcher: "We don’t need to remove stress, just approach it in a different way".

• Aaron Hill • Season 1 • Episode 23

Share episode

Send us a text

Life has a way of throwing curveballs, and sometimes they come at you fast and hard. Just ask Josh Fletcher, as a former rugby player turned F2 and F3 motorsport strength and conditioning coach, Josh's journey is a masterclass in redefining success and finding balance amidst chaos.

Ever feel like the world's weight is squarely on your shoulders? Josh's encounter with burnout and his wake-up call on a beach in Thailand will resonate deeply as he unveils the importance of self-awareness in battling stress. His transformative journey to India and work with Olympic athletes and Special Forces speaks to the heart of what it means to support each other through life's ups and downs.

Strap in for a look at the "recognize, reset, and refocus" technique, a game-changing strategy for anyone looking to keep stress at bay, whether you're on the racetrack or juggling life's daily demands.

Josh's narrative doesn't just stop at resilience; it encompasses the holistic view of maintaining well-being, managing stress proactively, and embracing the full spectrum of our human experience.

By the end of this episode, you'll be equipped with a toolbox of strategies for facing your own challenges head-on and a fresh perspective.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-fletcher-36151623/

https://www.wellnessblueprint.co.uk/

Thank you for tuning into Forging Resilience!

If you found value in today’s episode, it would mean the world if you could take a moment to leave us a review.

Your feedback helps us grow and reach more people looking to build their own resilience.

And don’t forget to hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an episode packed with insights and inspiration.

Follow my social media accounts | LinkedIn | Instagram |

Click here for my monthly newsletter, mix of insights, reflections and questions. To share with other driven people like you, for your own insights and application.




Speaker 1:

Welcome to Forging Resilience. Exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership, Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge, success and leadership. Josh, welcome to Forging Resilience, buddy.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you for having me Lovely to be here.

Speaker 1:

Mate, where are you sat today? Are you in the UK or back in France?

Speaker 2:

No, I'm in Lyon. So yeah, obviously you know I live over in Lyon. Just in my front room right now, this is supposedly my office. So yeah, I guess I moved into Lyon about three years ago, just snuck in, backdoored it in just before Brexit, and my son lives here. So that's, that's what keeps me in this part of the world.

Speaker 1:

Nice mate. Well, thanks, like I said, thanks for joining us, josh, it's going to be an interesting conversation with you today. I know you've got some really interesting experiences, both in the terms of the work you've done with motorsports, athletes, with stress management and burnout, both for others and yourself, and special forces as well. So you've got quite an interesting package. But to give people a better introduction, or understanding who you are, summarize your journey and what it is you do now, mate.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'll start with who I am as a person. So I'm from a big family, so I'm the youngest of four. My parents were obviously always out trying to support the family, so my older siblings were off doing older sibling things. So that meant I spent quite a lot of time on my own, which made me two things it made me feral and it made me independent, and those are two things which I kind of kept through throughout my whole life really, and I suppose because of that I became pretty resilient in lots of different ways and that stiff upper lip just crack on, crack on, go, go go kind of mentality. And then, like I said, I've got a four-year-old son. He's just. I call him Bam Bam because he's just destroying everything at the moment he's in that phase. I live in Lyon, I've lived in, I've worked in six countries now on three continents and I left the UK maybe six, seven years ago, I guess, so professionally. A failed rugby player, hands like cow's tits.

Speaker 1:

So I was never going to make it as a rugby player how long did you get into your journey before you discovered you had hands of butter mate?

Speaker 2:

well, I always knew it, but I was able to hide it and you can hide it until you get. It was like just below national one back, way back in the day, like 15, 16 years ago, and I was right on the cusp and then there was like I think so coaches like, yeah, but you can't catch a pass. I'm like, yeah, it's a good point, well made that. So absolutely fair I did mental.

Speaker 2:

I feel like I had the mental capacity and skills and to process and do everything that was needed there, and I had everything physically. But I and I made up for that by I made up for my lack of skill in that area anyway. So those who can't coach? So I went down the coaching route, um, personal trainer for god knows how long. Then I jumped into strength and conditioning at 26 it was actually quite, quite, uh old um, I didn't unpaid internship at English Institute of Sport and I, which took me five years to pay off, after I finally got a job uh, strength and conditioning coach. Then kind of all the way through three years in three years in olympic sport uh, fortunate enough to work as a the assistant coach with gb taekwondo for a couple of medals at london 2012.

Speaker 2:

Then I got what I like to call shit canned. So I got asked to reapply for my own job. Didn't get it. So that was my first like career, massive career punch in the face, I suppose. I managed to kind of drop into a job in pro rugby. So did three and a half years. There came across a narcissistic, bullying boss and that was when I burnt out big time, hit the wall, and literally I, when I say I hit the wall. I fell asleep behind the wheel on the motorway and, uh, woke up on the side of the road. That was as a result of burnout, which, as we know, was that accumulation of stress that I hadn't really processed or been able to figure out there's definitely some stuff to dive into there, mate yeah, yeah, there's some.

Speaker 2:

There's some lived experience there. Yeah, then, whistle, whistle, top tour, I moved to india. So basically I ran away. I ran away to india just like dropped, dropped everything, buggered off to india, which absolutely put me back on the map. Both you know, mentally and um in myself, in my person and professionally as well, that that contract finished because I was a bit uncomfortable with the way in which they were training some of the athletes. So I couldn't influence that, and if I can't change something and can't accept it, then it's not quit. It was engineer, my exit strategy. So that's exactly what I did.

Speaker 2:

I then got a job, did three and a half year contract with the Romanian Special Forces and we were building a training pipeline for supporting some of the activities over in the East now, and it was just a fantastic experience where I learned a crazy amount. So in that journey that chapter of my journey, I suppose, I was sent on a NATO Special Forces Headquarters Mental Performance and Resilience course. That was when I started to make the connections between what had happened to me and what stress burnout actually is, how you can function in the most extreme, austere environments in the world, and I was actually living some of that in Romania as well. That contract finished up.

Speaker 2:

I then got a job in F2, f3, motorsport. So I did a year in F2, two and a half or two years in F3 and kind of traveled the world with the drivers, was able to implement some of those skills and with it with the drivers, and I worked alongside F1 psychologist who at that point was working with about half the grid of F1 and I was just exceptional. So managed to kind of stack up all of these skills relating to stress management, resilience and really tried to bring that into something translate that is the word I like to use into the everyday life of you know, people who haven't experienced that. Now my small company is called Wellness Blueprint and essentially I support people to prioritize a little bit more of themselves, their well-being, try to conjure up a little bit more work-life balance for themselves, to manage stress and respond to it and not react to it, so that they can live the lives that they want to lead.

Speaker 1:

Great stuff, mate, you touched on it there resilience and and often I ask people one of the first questions what does resilience mean to you? Especially when I remember? So I'll throw that out there at the beginning now mate, what does, what does resilience actually mean to you? I?

Speaker 2:

think there's a few different facets, but to me personally, personally, it's always it's a combination. Bounce back ability is a word that I love and I stole that from Ian Dowie. He's a football manager who used that God knows how long ago, relating to his team having a real setback. I think they maybe just got relegated and he said I've got no problem. You know, my team have got bounce back ability and my team have got bounce back ability. So it's your ability to be able to come back from setback challenges and an approach, and it's also an approach towards how you do that.

Speaker 2:

So do you look at a challenge and a setback and just go into yourself and crumble, or do you just say, okay, let's see, let's see what we've got here. Or do you go really extreme, like the you know, the joco style and be like, yeah, come on, then let's have it. And that's what I used to do back in the day and now it's a little bit more. I've got a bit more knowledge around it and obviously one of the first things is just acceptance acceptance that this is hard, this is a stressful situation, and an understanding that you might not choose it, but it it's. It's tough and I'm going to find a way forward and I back myself to do that, and so when, back in the day, when you went to joco mode, was that potentially covering for something?

Speaker 2:

then uh, probably the fear of the unknown, maybe, um. So an example if it was something physical and it seemed hard or impossible, I'd just be like, yeah, the harder the better, and the more uncomfortable the better, and I would purposely and I used to say that I would purposely seek out the most uncomfortable situations that I could and I saw that as my chance to grow. And until recently, maybe, like two years ago, I'm like jeez, I'm a bit fed up of living in discomfort. I'm a bit fed up of it. I'd like a bit more creature comforts and and a lot of the places I'd lived and worked, I would see them and we're talking like horrendous, horrendous, disused sheep, sheds which leaked inside, families of pigeons living everywhere, just just horrendous things, Minus six inside Um, and and I would just be like this is great, I'd absolutely love this Um, and I think it was elements of fear, of fear of the unknown, for that Jocko mode and just if I confronted it and I accepted, accepted, yeah, this is a bit shit, but if I confront this and I go super aggressive, then I can overcome it was?

Speaker 1:

was there a differentiation for you personally in terms of physical resilience and emotional resilience, or did it all blend in? Because I get, I get the impression well, I was going to tell my own story there, but yeah, I'm curious to know your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2:

I think back in the day I was always raised with hard work kind of wins the day, and I had this mentality that there was no problem, I couldn't outwork, and I literally mean I would just work harder, I would just put in more hours, I would just do more reps. I would just do more reps, I would just do more and more and more. And that's where this like Mr More and Better kind of mentality came from. But I kind of soon realized, after I burnt out, that that isn't necessarily the way forward and that there's elements of you know quality rather than quantity that come into it. You know quality rather than quantity that come into it. And actually I just needed to change the way in which I approach some of these things as opposed to just trying to do more.

Speaker 2:

I still believe there's no problem, I can't outwork. But my stance now would be well, I have this much knowledge in this area, I'm going to go and find someone who's got that much knowledge and I'm going to learn from them, or I'm just going to try to outsource this because I know that this person is going to be able to do a better job than me. So there's, I've kind of dropped the ego, I suppose. But the work ethic still remains, but in a more healthy way talk to us about your burnout.

Speaker 1:

What was life looking like just before before you? Um ended up upside down on the motorway though in your car, or crashed well, I wasn't upside down.

Speaker 2:

I mean, somehow I'd I'd hit the wall, but I have a foot down on the accelerator and foot down on the brake, so it's actually really, really hard to do that. Um, if you think about how you drive a manual, that means that means there's something conscious going on there. But I don't really understand what. Um, what was life like it was? It was relentless. I was obsessed. I was obsessed not that dumb ass phrase that people use, you know, obsessed is the word used by the lazies to describe the dedicated like. I was unhealthy and I was a reckless professional and every single thing went above my own well-being and my own self. My work went above all of my friends, my family and every single personal decision. I had zero personal life. I put my work first and my pursuit of what I thought was, I guess, validation of a better badge, a better logo, a higher standard, a higher finish for the athletes, and I put their dreams and their wants and needs and desires ahead of mine. So when I did hit the wall, part one was what happened on the road, and then part two was later, that summer, going to Thailand, and I just had a meltdown on a beach and I was just wailing like my four year old when I say you can't have a sweet? Um, I don't want my life to be like this. And that was the point where there was a busy beach and people were coming around like what is going on with this big dude who's just bawling his eyes out on a beach? And that was the. That was more harrowing for me, that was more alarming and that was the. The point I said right, that's enough, enough's enough. And I'd always wanted it. There was big elements of my dreams. I was watching the sunset and I had dreams and aspirations to go somewhere, be something and work overseas. So I literally just dropped everything. Within three weeks of being back, I just, I just flipped with the three weeks of being back, I had three job interviews for jobs abroad. Within four weeks I had three offers and within six weeks I was on a plane to India and I was just. I just ran away, to be honest. But I ran away from a life which revolved around me saying yes to everything. I had zero boundaries, and even know what boundaries were. I had zero social life and I didn't care. I was.

Speaker 2:

My name is Josh Fletcher. I'm an SSC coach for dot, dot, dot, dot dot. And you know I'd prior to the job in rugby, I'd been asked to reapply for my old job in Olympic sport, which to me was the best job in the world. It couldn't get any better. So I would define myself by what I did. So when that was taken away, I was just broken. I was absolutely broken biscuits and I vowed that would never, ever happen again. So I got into rugby. I worked 30, 40%, 50%, longer and harder than I ever should have done, and then 30, 40, 50, longer and harder than I ever should have done, and then it catches up with you.

Speaker 1:

Sure as death and taxes it will get you. Yeah, was it? Was that the culture in the club at the time, josh, or was it? Was it more of a, an internal drive that you just happened to to have?

Speaker 2:

the common denominator and every job I've ever had and every job everyone ever has, is me so as yourself, so like I take full responsibility for what I did in my first job. Actually, I was reflecting on this yesterday in my in that Olympic sport job. I was well looked after. I had the support structure. I had psychological safety, I had people to talk to, I had a supportive group around. I had people trying to tell me to not work as much and overcommit. Don't, overdeliver, stay inside your boundaries, stay inside your hours, don't have to take on all these different projects. So I was well looked after, but that didn't stop me wanting to be the first in and the last out. That didn't stop me going home and working until 10 11 o'clock at night on projects that I was creating for myself. That didn't stop me creating and work for myself and over delivering and making the choice to put work ahead of my own personal life.

Speaker 2:

So then I took that into rugby and then that was. That was a sort of place where that it would just soak up everything you had to offer and more. It would just yeah, you want to do 50,. You want to do 80 hours a week? Okay. You want to do 90? Okay, that was a real kind of recipe for disaster. And put that together with a narcissistic bullying boss who, you know, was just picking on everybody, not just me. So it was a recipe for disaster really, but a lot of it. I do hold my hands up and say there is a big narrative around organizations being responsible for staff and individual burnout, employee burnout, and I do wholeheartedly agree. But, like I said, we are the common denominator in every job we ever have. Where are we contributing to the problem? And and I very, I know very well how significant my contribution was- yeah, if we were to go back onto that beach.

Speaker 1:

Um in in Thailand, mate. What do you remember? Or triggered that? That release of emotion for you as you, as you start there?

Speaker 2:

I think it was. It was the first time that I was sat. I'd been saving for this holiday for two years and I was sat watching this beautiful sunset and I had my feet on the sand and I can feel it. I can even feel it now. And I wasn't there.

Speaker 2:

I couldn't stop thinking about what I wanted to do for work and how I was going to deal with this boss, who was just a horrendous individual, and I thought I'm not enjoying being where I am. This isn't all right, this isn't normal, this isn't healthy, this isn't good. And who am I? When was the last time I felt like I was truly present and enjoyed a moment? And when was the last time I felt enjoyment and pleasure? Because it should be right now.

Speaker 2:

Everything set up for this is perfect scenario and I just wasn't and I just thought I'm totally lost. Then, of course, you say, well, where am I, who am I, what am I doing? What did I want to do? And then before, of course, you say, well, where am I, who am I, what am I doing, what did I want to do? And then, before you know it, you know you're just spiraling, but it was all I needed to do, that I had to have that kind of full release and I had to have something significant happen. Luckily it wasn't severe. I say the burnout is like a. It's a creep and then a bang. So I'd crept up to it. I had the bang of hitting the wall and luckily survived that, and then I hadn't really changed anything. A few weeks later I'd gone on holiday to Thailand and had crept up, and then that was another bang for me. And that was the time that I just said right, I've got to change my habits now. Enough's enough.

Speaker 1:

A common thing that I see with myself and with other often, that that's a repetitive pattern within us and we don't always get to, um, get ourselves rid of that for ourselves, and we, we can improve it, but it's a constant journey. How do you, if I make that assumption, that that, that, that that drive is still within you because you're the same person, um, that you're probably human as well, in the sense of we forget to be present sometimes, blah, blah, blah. We have the, the stress, the bills, the kids, the clients. How, how do you manage that journey for yourself then, josh, to make sure you don't get the the bang before you get to the the creep?

Speaker 2:

yeah. So I think it's. It's a large, there's a lot of self-work that has to go into it. There's a lot of self-awareness, and self-awareness to the level of I'm not just talking kind of that superficial like oh, I like to do this, I like to do that that real deep understanding of.

Speaker 2:

I have a tendency to overwork, I have a tendency to over deliver on projects. I have a tendency to make promises that I can't keep. I have a tendency to give unrealistic deadlines. So I have all these boundaries and kind of things that I have had to put in place to ensure that I don't go down that path again. And I now will say a fast no and a slow yes. And I also have had to go real deep and try and understand right, what is it I need to do for myself in order to be the best version of myself I could be. So what are the things I like to do, what are the things that I feel I need to do? And then, if I was to, you know, each thing's worth five points, something like this then how many points do I need per day in order to stay on on the level? And then you know over-delivering, overworking, procrastinations, worth minus points. And then you know you just got to balance the books, and I just call that kind of like tax and interest. So or making an investment, making a withdrawal, and you've got to try and balance the books.

Speaker 2:

Now my approach is so what you're describing, I guess, is a super strength, and I know the military guys have got it. It's that ability to just be like just head down, go turbo and just nothing else matters. You just crack on and you can just go and go and go. But it's like driving your car in the fast lane, like you can go until either the car breaks down or you hit something. That's the only real two scenarios that will happen when you just go foot down in the fast lane for long enough. But it's a super strength so you can't. It's like having a really powerful car. You can't overplay it, though you have to move lanes every so often and know that you have that ability to go turbo when you need to. But and I always joke about the military guys that I worked with they only had two switches, which was off and turbo, and the off switches were broken.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, definitely, and I think that's that's. That's something that catches up with a lot of people, not just in the military. That, yeah, and there's no doubt it'll get it can get you some pretty fascinating, incredible results as well. That, that mindset, that work ethic and that's where it gets a bit short term, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

short, yeah, short term, exactly, and there is a price. Yeah, but most people from the outside would focus on on the results, not all that work or sacrifice behind it, because that's all we see. If we, if we make that assumption in terms of certain military lads or certain athletes, um, but yeah, like you say, there is a as a human price, is an emotional price to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I do I do think that when, like as as coaches, we just have this tendency to put everybody else first, but when, when we really step back and look at it, we say, well, how do we coach athletes, how do we, how have we been trained throughout our careers and what has worked to get us to the point where we needed to be, to perform at the level that we needed to, or that our athletes needed to? And it's just basic periodization. So periodization would be breaking down the core competencies of whatever the physical quality is you're trying to develop and then mapping in periods of intensity with periods of lower intensity and then periods of complete switch off and rest. None of it's rocket science. The problem is that it's a bit boring. Yeah, the problem is that when we're not intentional about how we map those things out and structure it throughout the week, it tends to get pretty, pretty basic. But we've also got to think about the.

Speaker 2:

I'm talking a bit about stress here. It's like where does stress show up in our lives and where are we contributing to the problem? So do we have too much stress in our lives? Do we have too much drama? Because drama is a magnet for stress. So, when it came to me, or when it does come to me, I look around and I say, right, in each of the different areas of my life, where is there drama? So if we're talking about the way in which I raised my son, then where am I contributing and creating that drama? When he's having a tantrum, he's four years old. What am I doing? Shouting at him? I'm just exacerbating the problem there.

Speaker 2:

So again, okay, that's something that I can change. Then we've got work. Well, if I'm flying off to all these different parts of the world and some of the jobs I'm not actually enjoying that much, that's drama created. If there's, how am I engaging with that? How am I encouraging that? If there's something with relationships, if there's something with my home life and where I live, where am I contributing to the problem? Because obviously, what we encourage, we tolerate. I've been a nightmare for inviting opinions into my life. For years. I've been saying, oh, what do you think? What do you think, instead of just trusting myself. So I've been openly saying, oh, come on in drama, let's sit down, and you know we get along really well.

Speaker 1:

But now it's just like nope're gone, adios yeah, I like that, mate, and it goes back to some conversations or some posts that you've been putting out about boundaries, and for me it's been some of the most challenging, uncomfortable work because it's so close to home as well. It's conversations with my wife about certain beliefs and certain things that going on in our lives, or with the kids, with my in-laws, in terms of how they interact, the message they tell my kids. I know they come from a good place, but it makes it so incredibly valuable to have those conversations, and productive as well, even though it's really really uncomfortable. So it all comes back to me to manage my drama, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, some of them are the boundaries ones and I guess it's just. Some of them are around use of language and some of them are actually around. You know, this is actually a really good activity for us to do together and the partner one is a great example and actually sitting down and saying can we just grab a piece of paper? I'd just love to do an activity with you. And you sit down and say, look, I just wanted to know, like I just wanted us to write down what things we need to do, kind of on a on a daily, weekly basis. What do you need on a daily, weekly basis to be to feel great? And you write a list, and I'm going to write a list, and then maybe you can have a think about what I might have on my list, and then we'll discuss them, and then you chat about them, you have a conversation. You'll learn a lot. I didn't know that you, you like to do this and this.

Speaker 2:

And then the next question, the follow-on, is how can I support you with that? So you've got a list of things that you need that you know. Like I need to be out on my bike at least twice a week. I need to go for a lap of the block before when I down tools, because I work from home before I then come back in and I've been able to transition from work mode to home mode. I need to do my breath work in the morning, or you know, I need to go and meet up with the lads at least once a week and she might have that's might be your five, but five might be like absolute, that's gold standard.

Speaker 2:

But really, when, if the shit hits the fan, like what are the one, two, three things every single day that you can do, that don't necessarily interrupt too much with someone else's life and the way in which you kind of interact. And then what does she have on her list? And when you start to compare the lists, it's like, well, how can I support you with that? Well, would it be possible for you to do dot dot dot? Yeah, okay, would it be possible for you to do dot dot dot? And we're not perfect, but it's just actually actually having that conversation, that dialogue in a way that is proactive and productive is is a. It's a really kind of simple way to to get on with it.

Speaker 1:

Um, with regards to in-laws, can't help you there. Yeah, right, those are conversations I've had and but yeah, it's just open conversation and it's. It's interesting because so many times, like you alluded to earlier, it's the drama things when really it's just a maths thing. My coach always talks about maths problem as in, it's got a solution, you'll work it out.

Speaker 2:

Or, like you say, it's a drama, it's an emotional thing and when you, when you attach, when you have a, a solutions-based focus as a pair, that's, that's huge. When when one person's bringing a drama because I've been in a situation where I've brought the drum before and I've been in a situation where they've bought the drama but when you have two people that are solutions focused and you're saying, look, the drama's there and let's just park that, let's just try and park the emotion, let's just focus on solutions and get as close to like gold standard or optimum as we can for both of us yeah, but the thing is, though, is to take that step and have that conversation, whereas I'm very guilty of kicking it down the road next week, or I won't be so tired, or yeah, I've got this work to do, all that good stuff, and and so it inevitably takes a lot longer to have.

Speaker 1:

Um, you know, something I've I've fully owned, mate. If we're to fast forward, then from the beach into to India, what you said it sounded like that had quite a big impact on you. What, what did you learn about yourself when you were there?

Speaker 2:

I'd completely cleared my mind of any expectation before I went and I expected the absolute worst. And you know, kind of true to the mentality I had then is that I almost wanted and I needed a full reset and I fully accepted that's what I was going to do. So what I did is I just cleared my mind and said whatever happens happens. And everybody says, oh you know, have you done all of this, have you thought about this and that? And I just deliberately avoided everything. I mean, I didn't even look on Google Maps as to where I was going, I just booked a ticket and then that was that. I got a visa and I just turned up and then I just thought you know what, I'm open to whatever comes my way, because that's what I felt I needed to do. And what it did is it just recalibrated me. I was just able to watch and just start to see in color. Again.

Speaker 2:

I could smell the smells, which are quite robust, I could sense my senses were just going absolutely bonkers and it just slowly, slowly started to come back alive and I processed a lot and I got a lot of things out of my system and I really tried to engage with everything that was there and the people and the connection that was there was just so huge that I learned to almost trust again and I learned that I had a lot more control over my path than I thought. I learned that even professionally, I needed more balance within my life, like, yeah, you can enjoy what you do. You don't love what you do in terms of this is how I love my kids and my family and my friends and this is how I love my job. No, no, no, there's not the same type of love. It's. It's totally different, and so I was able to kind of compartmentalize quite a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2:

Um, so it was just an invaluable experience where there was just india if anyone's ever been, or if you've ever been is a. It's just a magical place. It's the most disgusting, filthy, vile, dirty, stinking place, which is also the most magical, amazing, the most kind-hearted people, the most beautiful, diverse, amazing place on the planet. So it's just an all-out attack on your senses and I just soaked up, tried to soak everything up and and it was yeah, it just completely gave me back my mojo did you have help trying to get or guidance trying to get process some of the stuff that you?

Speaker 2:

literally until the last few years, just been a complete lone ranger. I just thought there's no again, there's no problem, I can't outwork and and it's great and it does work. But you do need guidance at certain points in your life, I believe, and some of that's for mentors, coaches, and it could, you know, it could be from from any avenue really, but I think sometimes that that often expedites the process really and saves you a lot of time and heartache and dead ends really yeah or support, isn't it really so?

Speaker 1:

when you fall down, you get to, they get to interpret it rather than us attract attach our drama to it. That was quick in terms of motorsport, mate I, I saw something you put out again the other day about the three. Is it the three? I can't remember what they are now which? Is the three hours. Yeah, so recognize release. Yeah, so I actually got that from.

Speaker 2:

I got that from the NATO Special Forces guys. So that's recognised, reset and refocus and it relates to stress and it's been absolutely invaluable for me. I've been on and off for four or five years with that and now recently I'm just like I'm absolutely on it now. So I recognise that there's some sort of stressful situation taking place and it can be anywhere in life.

Speaker 1:

So, in context, mate, which I loved, where you drew this in was into, in drivers that are coming F2, I think, and probably quite a few F1 lads they have that time. They've got a split second to reset again, because the way that we hold tension in our body, no doubt it makes things slightly slower, doesn't it? So if you compound that over race, they're going to lose. So that's where it came in.

Speaker 2:

So, within that split, second yeah, so they're recognizing some stress happening. So for a driver they don't need to do the recognize because that's obvious. The reason why it's so important for them to process their stress and have almost triggers for them to be able to release is because if there's, if they make a mistake in t1, so turn one, that costs them two tenths. They need to finish the lap two tenths down. They can't compound because if they compound they just completely blow their lap out of the water and they can finish five, six, seven, eight tenths down. They can't compound because if they compound they just completely blow their lap out the water and they can finish five, six, seven, eight tenths down and then you know their laps done and they're at the back of the pack. And this is normally in qualifying where it's actually the most stressful part of the weekend, because in f2, f3, especially f3, if you, if you qualify below 15th, you're cooked. It's just absolute carnage back there. So you've got to be 15 plus and really you've got to be 10 plus to be in with any chance of getting anything out of the weekend, and I'm talking the whole weekend, so it can be blown out the water within that short qualifying window. So there's already this recognition that there is stress that exists. It's already just a general acceptance. Stress is high, it's just totally normal. So what their job is to try to keep that as low as possible and then recover, kind of come up and down between the stressful activities as quick as they possibly can.

Speaker 2:

So the reset is a physical reset. So normally if we've got a little bit more time we might say we might have an inhale through the nose and a longer exhale through the mouth. These guys don't have that time, so normally we have to look at where they're holding their stress. So the vast majority of the drivers will hold their stress in their grip and F1 actually did an assessment of they put a grip monitor on the wheel and they found that the more stressful the longer it got through qualifying session and the more pressure and intensity that was harder they gripped. The harder they gripped, the less flow they could be, the more everything tightened up all around here and they started to make a few more mistakes. So they had the trigger the reset is to when they go across the start finish line or when they hit a straight, is to release the grip a little bit lower the shoulders and then unclench the jaw and then that was their trigger to refocus. So what is the very first next step that I need to take? And that could be as simple as I've just done my reset.

Speaker 2:

Okay, next turn not processing the problem they just had, because they need to bank that they can review. So they go from t1 they make a mistake on the previous lap, say right, what does it need to do on this? I need to, I need to come out at a slightly different angle. Then they're only thinking about that. They're not thinking about turn two, they're not thinking about turn three. Just that very, very tiny first step. And that translates really really nicely into everyday life as well.

Speaker 2:

And recognizing we add the recognize, or I add the recognize for everyday life, for civilians and for myself, because I'm accepting and understanding.

Speaker 2:

This is a stressful situation. I might not necessarily choose this, but it's happening, it's going on right now. Situation I might not necessarily choose this, but it's happening, it's going on right now. I'm then going to do some sort of physical reset which is unclenching my jaw, which is relaxing my shoulders, which is releasing my grip, which is a longer exhale than inhale. Might be some deliberate breath work, might be a snap band, so some sort of physical cue that is triggering you to then release some of that stress and slightly get a split second to calm the emotional brain and let our rational brains kick in to refocus on what it is we're supposed to be doing. Then what is the very, very, very smallest first step that we can take in order to reset and like? This was just gold dust for the military guys, and that's that's where I took this from, and you'll have hundreds of examples of where you've used something very, very similar, I imagine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I guess so, but I don't think it was a long time ago and also I was very young and I think the world or the military is caught up to those sorts of things and, as you know, in big organizations change takes time, so there'll be a certain, there'll be a lag both ways there. I think, and I get the impression, josh, that the working in that environment for you, in terms of with the military lads and the experience with Romanian special forces, had a big impact on you yeah, massive um two, two reasons.

Speaker 2:

Number one is because I lived for three of my three and a half years there with a group of retired us sf guys. So I think at one point I was sat in a room and there was something like 57 years worth of soft experience and I was just like I think I got a year in and then they actually literally gave me permission to speak um with the exact with the exact phrase you don't say too much dumb shit, you can speak a little bit now.

Speaker 2:

um, and I was like, okay, I was critically aware that I was entering in on minus respect points. So I was non-soft minus one because I was non-military. That's minus two. I was working as a contractor which, in the Romanian system, was not really was a bit frowned upon. You were kind of like liked but not really um, so that was minus three. I didn't speak the language. That was minus four. And I had already started on minus four. I put myself at minus four, minus five respect point.

Speaker 2:

So I almost said right, I went ott and I just thought I'm going to use my two ears and one mouth and the correct ratio and I'm going to allow my work to do the talking. And I just kept completely quiet and I dotted every, I crossed every T, reported everything there was to report through all my channels, which was four of them the US government, the Romanian government, the contract company that I worked for, and then the contract company employed my contract company. So I had those four different lines of reporting. It's kind of like playing 3D chess and I just absolutely loved it. I thought it was fantastic and I got given my respect after a while.

Speaker 2:

So I was kind of I was at one with them but I wasn't one of them and you know, everyone always made it very clear that I was never one of them and of course I would never, never dream of trying to take any sort of credit like that. But that was one side. So who I lived with and who I operated with and who I observed and the mentality and the mindsets that they had, that I couldn't escape from 24-7. I mean, all the stories that you guys, you know I heard them all essentially. So that's tough, especially after they've had a few drinks.

Speaker 2:

And then being part of building the pipeline and watching recruits, watching recruits go from entry point all the way through the selection process into the Q course, graduating the Q course, you know 189 dudes coming in and like 55 graduating. It was just, yeah, it was just amazing to be part of that and I followed them all around the country and part of all of the modules. It was just brilliant. It's just a really, really amazing project and we built the plane in flight and I guess the human performance program was quite integral to that. It's something they'd never seen before and it literally never, ever been done before.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, what was your biggest lesson or insight for you personally, from that experience, those three and a half years?

Speaker 2:

It'd be hard to put a single lesson on it, but I think I think something that I really started to understand was they are just human beings for a start and they just happen to be in that particular. They're very high performing in that particular realm, but they still had stress, they still had pressure, they still had human problems. So actually trying to engage with people on a human level was actually well respected. I actually tried not to be anybody but myself and I knew that I had a. I felt like I had a complete disadvantage, that I was non-military and that my minus respect points would, would stand against me. So what I?

Speaker 2:

I feel like I created ott self-awareness and that was one of the. I would disarm that really early in conversations and and I would be the person who would approach it. So I took control of the situation. I suppose that you know I'm non-military, which means I've spent 14 years trying to get good at what I do and my job is to do this, this and this and help you as much as I can. So that dot, dot, dot. So it wasn't so much a sales pitch, it was just more of a try to take control of what is actually a really difficult situation and let people then say, well, okay, let's give them a chance and then let the work do the talking. So I could kind of really gain some respect, but I always started on zero or minus. I think that was something that was quite important to that. That self-awareness, like really really deep self-awareness, was something that I felt like I developed and I started off with but far too much, and then I developed it in that respect over time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think there's two, two things that are coming to me from that. One is quite uncomfortable to say, one's a lot easier. One is that you're quite a humble lad and that that obviously is sets sets us in in good stead. But also, I'm not I'm not criticizing, but it is very interesting to see. Yeah, there's no doubt that those, those lads you're working with, had a lot of experience and their own little special club and that does exist.

Speaker 1:

I recognize that and, as you know, I've been part of that a little bit as well. But it's interesting because I that there's so much more to life outside of the work that we do, the, the wage that we earn and the clothes that we wear and, like you've experienced, once that gets stripped away, um, that can provide a challenge, um, a bit a big challenge. And I'd one of my biggest thing to my mates leaving is to is, yeah, recognize what it is that you love to do and try and do that outside. Don't marry your image to your title because you know, for most lads, after x amount of year service it ends and it's not always problem start, but it can do, especially when you're pushed up and and seen as elevated and it's it.

Speaker 2:

To me it was exactly. It was exactly the same as the, as the, the athletes. So the athletes, especially the guys who have been born into a track suit, so that was a bit academy level up, up, up, up, and then all of a sudden it's pulled, the rugs pulled from beneath and what, who am I? What am I doing? And for you guys, some of the guys I work with, the contractors, you know they were, they were 30 years in, they'd done, they'd done 30 plus years and they'd retired off the back and you know they were still involved in bits and pieces here and there. But they move into contracting but, like all the conversation revolved around, it was literally just who they were, like, fully ingrained. Yeah, it was so deep into their, into their person, their being, their identity was.

Speaker 2:

I was imsf, that's that, and that was really fascinating to see. And they really struggled. A lot of them struggled to detach themselves from that. I mean next to no hobbies. You know very common, the numbing, and I was working with quite an extreme group of people. They saw a lot of action during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, so I could see it for what it was and I truly understood it. But I also had to kind of like step back a little bit from that Cause I was, I was a civilian, I'd only watched the films, you know, and to hear the stories from people was.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm reading. I'm reading a fascinating book. At the moment the body keeps the score. I'm not sure if you've read that book. I really struggled with the first half, really struggled. Some of the descriptions of some of the trauma that goes on are oh, push through that, but yeah, and until we can find a way to express certain things and recognize ourselves for who we are, not what we are, then, yeah, it can come at a price, can't it? Yeah?

Speaker 2:

it's difficult.

Speaker 1:

It's a difficult situation if you were giving a seminar, josh, changing the conversation slightly here, um, in terms of delivering to a corporate, what's a couple of things that you would talk about that people that are listening could maybe take away in terms of managing and recognizing stress within themselves or their organizations?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I, I would. I would talk about stress as um, as something that's normal, it's a part of our lives. I would, I would say we don't necessarily need to be removing it, we just need to be approaching it in a different way. We need to understand the relationship between stress and drama. So I would, I would always talk about where you contribute into the problem. I would really zoom in and focus on responding and not reacting to stress and how we can change our relationship with it by understanding it is something we can control. But essentially it's a skill. And I don't know.

Speaker 2:

You asked me to go and go on a golf course and hit a straight drive. Then there's I don't know one in 30 chance I'm going to do that. But the more reps I do, a little bit of coaching, a little bit of support, the chances of me hitting straight and long are a lot, a lot greater. So repping it, but repping it consciously and repping it, understanding that it is a trainable skill to be able to respond and not react. So the first step, obviously, with that is right.

Speaker 2:

What are my current reactions? What are my stresses? What? What are my current reactions to those stresses, whether that's at home or at work. What are my current reactions? Are they helpful reactions? Not necessarily, okay. Well, what would an optimal, what would a better reaction be? And then, what are my current reactions? Are they helpful reactions? Not necessarily, okay. Well, what would an optimal, what would a better reaction be? And then, what are the first steps that I can take to to get a bit closer to a slightly better reaction?

Speaker 2:

And then, the good thing about all of this is that we have so many opportunities throughout the day to to respond differently to stress. I think I've probably experienced maybe what's the time now it's like nearly midday and I think I've probably experienced maybe what's the time now it's like nearly midday and I reckon I've had about 15 opportunities to respond to stressful actions. And so far, so good. But sometimes, when we fall off the wagon, the next thing that I would really focus on is don't allow them to compound. Like. Like, I got cut up. I was on my bicycle this morning and I got cut up by a van. Well, that's got absolutely nothing to do with the fact that before jumping on this podcast, I had to download Google Chrome and I was worried I was going to be late. Those two things aren't related. So after the van incident I released the pressure valve and tried to lower myself back down because I didn't need to compound that, I didn't need to connect two things that are totally unrelated. So, as a result, my, my threshold and my set my set point, my stress set point, is lower.

Speaker 2:

And I think probably the final thing I always really go into a lot of detail with people on is we're actually pretty good at macro level release. So pretty good at the holiday part and maybe, if we're lucky, we might have two a week, two a year. Some people have more, some people have less. We're quite good at that and that's like that and we feel like we go. But the problem is it takes us normally like the first third to bring ourselves down. Middle third, we're like, right, I'm in a good place now. And then the last third, we're ramping up ready to go again and then we're clawing our way towards the next holiday. So we're quite good at that macro, but we're the middle is that kind of?

Speaker 2:

The meso is what I call, or medium level releases are the daily, weekly, monthly and we're actually not too bad at those, like having a day off every so often, maybe having a weekend off, turning our phones off, that sort of thing. But the area that we're really really poor at is the micro breaks, the micro level, so switching off throughout the day. So after a meeting, okay, what can I do? That's very small in order to switch off and just release the pressure a little bit.

Speaker 1:

So instead of it going throughout the day and still we're overflowing, we're actually just turning the dial a little bit what would be an example of that to release pressure, and I guess it depends on the individual, but what some generally interesting things to do, or advisable things to do in terms of releasing pressure so try to, if you can try to escape whatever it is it's causing the stressor.

Speaker 2:

So an example would be everyone says I don't have time, I don't have time. If you go to the toilet throughout the day, then you've got time. If you ever go to the toilet, you have time because on the way to the toilet you can be breathing in through your nose, you can be breathing out through your mouth, you can be releasing the stress, you can be unclenching everything, you can be relaxing all the muscles, you can be going a little bit soft. You could potentially go. If you're in an office block, go to the toilet that's furthest away, or a floor above or floor below. Buy yourself that little bit more time. You could do some intentional breath work in between calls or in between meetings, in between emails. You can get a little coloring in book next to your desk and just one of those little mini ones and you can do a tiny little bit of colouring in, even if it's one, two, three minutes. You can stare at a point on the wall and start to focus in on your breath. You can put your phone to the side, walk to the toilet, walk back. You can get out into nature. If you have any nearby, you can put on some sort of calming music. If you have access to that, you can really really zoom in and think about how you're feeling, so that you know the body scans. These sorts of things like imagine a really, really nice one.

Speaker 2:

I like is like you got your your feet here. Try and lift this toe here and actually think about it all. Right, okay, yeah, I got it. Oh, the next one. Before you know it, you've had 20 seconds where you've not thought about stress and pressure of your work. It doesn't matter what it is. You can do it whilst you're sat down. But if you have a little bit more of an opportunity to plan your schedule, don't try not to go back to back. Try and even say, right, I'm, I'm going to go 55, 5. That's something that I quite like to do and in that 55, 5, during the 5, I will always step away and I'll step away, I'll move, I'll, I'll look out the window for five minutes, I'll, I'll do something. So that's just literally off the top of my head.

Speaker 1:

There's hundreds of things, yeah, yeah, millions of things get get out of your head, get into your body, basically yeah and there's just a lot that you can do.

Speaker 2:

What we don't do is we just go all right, next job, next job, next job. Before we know it, we've compounded all our stresses and we are no longer at a average set point of four out of ten, because most life we sit around a three, four anyway. We've gone five, six, seven. Well, now we're sitting at a seven.

Speaker 1:

We'll blow our top at a nine so we want usually, usually at home with the people that we love, and exactly, and that's where de where.

Speaker 2:

That's where transition time comes in. So some people call it switching off. I call it transition time because it's not a flick switch. You dial, you dial down the stresses and pressures of work, but as you dial down, the other one dials up. So you, you're not the same person at work that you need to be at home. So work is quite intense.

Speaker 2:

Work is process, is is outcome orientated, it's professional, it's quite cut and dry, quite clinical, depending on what you do. It requires different type of communication. At home you require presence, love, joy, like you require by emotion at work, but often, depending on what you do, emotions a little bit frowned upon. So we have to transition from that state to this state. It doesn't happen overnight. A really good one, sorry, it doesn't happen instantaneously. I think it was. I stole this one from Gary Bamford, I think you obviously know Gary, and he said that when he finishes his day he would go for a walk around the block. So if you're working from home and your last call or your last bit of work is at 5 pm, if you can try and walk around the block and that's your point to transition yourself into right, walk back through the door. Dad time, part of time, yeah, no relax time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, great, great stuff, josh mate. Um appreciate, um, I've got a couple of minutes before my next one. It's a lesson that I'm taking away from this, mate not to do back to back, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Where can people find out a bit more about the work you do, josh um, or get in touch with you, mate?

Speaker 2:

yeah so my website is wellnessblueprintcouk and on there I've got a, a community called the Wellness Hub, which is going to be kicking off fairly soon, so you can find out a little bit more about that. So, basically, anything we've talked about here on all things well-being it's a little bit like a library of well-being that I've put together. So you can find that on the website and you can also find me on Instagram. I don't really use it that much. I forget what it's. What my handle is I think it's wellness blueprint, twitter is wellness blueprint as well, and then linkedin is obviously just my name. So yeah, just you've got any questions on anything? Then please do, please do. Uh, throw them out brilliant mate.

Speaker 1:

Well, um, yeah, thanks for taking the time to talk to us today, josh. I appreciate that. That, mate, some of your story and your insights there. I love your posts that you do on LinkedIn. I want to bite on some of them. They really challenge me, which is a sign of a good piece of writing. It causes me to reflect.

Speaker 2:

Do bite. It all helps the algorithm.

Speaker 1:

No, I know Some of it does and, interestingly enough, we haven't got onto it today.

Speaker 2:

But the 1 of it does, and interestingly enough we haven't got onto it today, but um that the one percent better next time we'll talk about.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, um, definitely, mr, more and better. I put I, I killed him off a couple years ago. No, it's an interesting conversation, it makes an interesting conversation. But, um, yeah, mate, appreciate it. Take it easy, josh, and we'll be in touch. Thanks, sir. Bye-bye, all the best. We'll be in touch. Thanks, aaron. Bye-bye, all the best.