Forging Resilience

31 Coaching - Jon Bevan: "Nothing's gone wrong, there is nothing to fix".

• Aaron Hill • Season 1 • Episode 31

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What if celebrating your achievements could be the key to unlocking sustained success and happiness? 

Join us as we welcome John, a remarkable individual juggling careers in both coaching and policing, to discuss the struggle many of us face: truly valuing our accomplishments. Despite receiving positive feedback and creating numerous opportunities, John finds himself questioning the satisfaction that comes with his success. 

Together, we examine the upper limit problem and self-sabotage, and explore how recognizing and celebrating milestones can maintain motivation and peace of mind.

The journey of personal and professional development often hinges on mindset, and in this episode, we dive deep into the power of self-belief. John shares his rich experiences from coaching to kayaking, shedding light on common fears of fleeting success and scarcity. 

By reflecting on these fears, we uncover the underlying belief that progress and stability may not last. We emphasize the importance of evidence in reinforcing confidence and discuss strategies to overcome these doubts, ensuring continued growth and thriving in one's endeavors.

Balancing ambition with gratitude is a delicate act.  John’s story brings to life the importance of recognizing incremental progress, like improved financial stability and more frequent holidays. 

By grounding ourselves in the present and embracing change, we can overcome the fear of impermanence in our achievements. 

The takeaway? Embrace the journey, sit with your beliefs, and understand that the true reward lies in the continuous process of growth and self-discovery.

Thank you for tuning into Forging Resilience!

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Aaron:

Welcome to Forging Resilience, exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership. Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge, success and leadership. Guys, welcome to a special edition of Forging Resilience. An idea I had a while ago, which I stole from somebody sat opposite me on the screen here, was to to use an opportunity to to coach somebody so that they can have an experience of coaching if they're not used to it, so they can get some value from, from what we talk about, but also for the listener, and when you're listening to this, listen to this through your own lens, as in, rather than to judge or to agree. See what you can take away from the conversation today between john and I.

Aaron:

So, john, welcome to the to the show again yeah, really good, mate, so let let's dive straight in. I know we've we spoke really briefly, but before, mate, but is is there something that I can support you with today? No, okay, well, that's finished.

Jon:

That's a great episode, one of the not the quickest there is and there is, and it's actually come very timely. Because what I've noticed is and I do have some sort of frustration with it is, once I'll just spiel it, be like it's almost like once I get what I want, I then sort of don't appreciate or don't want it, and and I find it, I'm gonna say it. So I'll give an example. So with I had this thing of I wanted to be presenting to the police and I had this thing of going right, I want to be, I want to be in demand, I want the police to be coming to me, going right, we want you to come and help sort this problem out. So that was my vision, lovely, and if I look back like month, we're talking a year, we're talking months ago. I was literally sort of begging people for me to go and speak to them. Oh, I'll come and speak to you, and they're a bit like really it doesn't sound like that would be very interesting. And then so I would sort of beg, borrow and all this sort of business. And then I get there and I thought soon they're going to want me and I'm going to be speaking to the chief, then I'm going to be this and I got this vision I'm going to be this national lead on stress and burnout, because it's such a different approach Then. So I'm in a position now which I've created, totally I've created where I've given a personal presentation to the chief constable, which I instigated. I went I need to come and speak to you because I think I could help you. And it was just I look at myself and go, I'm such a different person when I'm there doing it.

Jon:

I then I went in to do the presentation for the new recruits and again that was me reaching out saying to someone I'd seen on LinkedIn. I went would you want me to come and do this for you? And then I did it and the feedback I've been getting is literally so good. When I first started, I wish I had it to read out. The feedback I had was literally, you need to go and speak to someone who knows what they're doing. But that would spur me on and go yeah, right, I'm gonna. It's almost like I'm gonna chase this, I'm gonna get this. And now I did this one at the university and they said you got quite a um. You know, there's some characters here that are very sort of anti this and all that. And the person said after I said I how do you think that went? This, you had said I've never seen them so engaged and I've had that in my last three, especially when I've done it for uniform they said I've never seen this group of people so engaged for so long. And the feedback from those people even the ones we thought was weren't going to buy into it we're just like that is really good, that is, that's changing and so.

Jon:

But I walk out and I don't feel anything, if anything and and I think if for me, I'm wondering is this like an upper limit problem? Like do I not believe that I can really achieve this? And is this me sabotaging myself? You know, I mean that'd be and that. Know what I mean and that's the bit I go, and that's the bit I go. Oh, I don't want to be caught up in this where when it's really hard, I'm almost caught up in that struggle and then when it's suddenly I've got what I want, it's like well, I tell myself it's not even that. I don't appreciate it. I tell myself it's still not working. Whereas I go, that was my vision, I am there and I still tell myself it's not working. It pisses me off.

Aaron:

So, to add a bit of context for this, for people that are listening, john is a life coach and also serving police officer, working both careers and, as he alluded to, he is a stress and burnout coach for the police, and this is where the presentations wind in there. So what would be a question that you could or might want to ask me about this situation that we can work on?

Jon:

The first thing that comes to my head is how can I and I see this in all areas of my life how can I appreciate more and I think it's about being fair how can I appreciate more? Why, um, why I've got as in. So when I get something, so I set this vision once I get it, how can I then go? Oh, it's almost like am I ever going to be at peace, or am I always going to be chasing something?

Aaron:

So just yeah, ask one question, because you've asked two or three, three, we'll get there.

Jon:

I think it's. How can I appreciate this more?

Aaron:

Okay, what's between you and appreciating this more? Do you anticipate?

Jon:

and appreciating this more. Do you anticipate? I think it. Well, the first thing that comes up for me is the fear of it not working. I think it's a, I think it's a belief issue, and I think the reason I can't appreciate what I've got is because I think it's not gonna last, and that is such, that is such a common thing for me that's been coming up all the time. This is not going to work, it's not going to last. So it's almost like I need to move on to that next thing, and I think then I get addicted to that high, low, high, low, high, low, high, low sort of situation.

Aaron:

Generally, john, when you're coaching and teaching, or you find yourself observing conversations rather than engaging them. What, what is it you teach most? What do I teach?

Jon:

most well, I would say I don't teach, I show yeah, but okay, what is it you show most? Really that people are always in control of how they show up to a situation.

Aaron:

That's really about releasing that the event is causing the issue, because to me that's what gives causing the issue, because to me that's what gives, that's what gives people, that's what gives people the control and if you were to step back out of your own situation slightly and potentially, what's a potential dot to connect between what you show people and being in control of the events, and this desire to appreciate what you have more?

Aaron:

so I said I don't get to what potentially might or similar similarities or dots could there be to connect between what you show people or what you teach, as I phrased it, and where you find yourself now in terms of appreciation? What steps I can take? Yeah, potentially.

Jon:

Yeah, let's go with that. I think for me, what comes up is just actually spending time seeing, actually looking for the evidence that it does work. But I do that, but I, I, for me, I think it's when I, when I sit here now I think I've been doing that like looking at evidence, and actually I get I get a lot of feedback. Now I get a lot of feedback, but for me it's more almost like an acceptance, like working on that belief and realizing that actually, rather than something that this is something gone wrong, maybe this is something. This is just an indicator that my belief is just not 100, but actually and it's actually nothing to do with what I've got, actually, yeah, that sort of yeah that seems clearer now. It's not, it's not to do with this, is nothing to do with what I've got. It's more to do with my belief about what I'm going to go out and get next and actually I think, sitting with that and looking and going by, I've created something because, yeah, this is because this is actually what the good news is. I've actually created something with self-doubt as in they're not doubting myself all the time, but going self-doubt was there and going forward, going forward. So, yeah, I think it's more for me about sitting and realizing that I can create, because what I've got is really is evidence that I can create whatever I want without it being perfect, whereas when I move on to the next bit, when I go, right, this is my next because, so my next stage I've got so many um, I've got so many requests now for presentations, which was like like was once, was like, oh, it's gonna be amazing when I get that is looking and going. I actually created that whilst sort of doubting and now I can, I can, you almost I've got this process that I can use moving forward, but I just want to be really for me. I just want to be where I go.

Jon:

I think if I was to say, well, where I want to be is where I'm going, I'm just loving this where I am, which a lot of the time I am, but I'm loving this, but I'm going out to get that just because I want it, not because I need it, but I feel like I slip into. I need something. I need that to prove myself rather than just going. It's good fun to have. I almost got this vision that I can go after it, like with going, almost waking up with this bounce in my step every morning going yeah, it's fine If I don't get it, I don't get it If I don't get it.

Jon:

And then I think, because I think it's going, it's really for me, what's coming up now is it's a scarcity thing, it's a thing that I don't truly believe, that this is going to last. And that's the same with everything with money, with everything. I do something, I go all in and I don't really see that being me, just being me, has created this, because I think someone's going to go and pull the rug out. So I think, like we got our remortgage coming up, I think they're suddenly going to go. Yeah, you've got to pay an extra two thousand pounds a month and suddenly all I've done, I'll have to go back to what I was doing, go back.

Aaron:

So I think it's a for me, it's a fear of losing it all yeah, and that's something that's come up for you quite a lot, not just today but, as as you've alluded to, in the past as well.

Jon:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. And it's everywhere for me, like if I go, say if I go kayaking and I've worked a lot on it in some areas, so like I remember going to Cardiff on the artificial white water course or anywhere, just getting on the river somewhere, and just I just remember this one one, really clear. I'd be going out on the conveyor belt holding my paddle, by the way, and I'd be, and I'd be going up and I'd be thinking when can I come next time? When can I come next time? Because I'd be thinking that nikki, my wife won't want me to go next time. Uh, but then she's the one as soon as I go, if I go, I said to her I think about going to scotland, yeah, go go. And so I realized I'm the only one in my way. But I just got this thing of like.

Jon:

I think the underlying belief which has come up through this is it's not going to last. That's the thing, whatever I have, and that's my health as in like I feel really fit and strong at the moment and I go, but that's not going to last if I go, my, what I'm doing with my coaching. I think this is. It almost seems too easy. It's great. I went and did this presentation and I literally planned for five minutes for a workshop and then people went oh it was amazing, can. But I almost feel like, yeah, but that's not gonna last. Someone's gonna pull the rug out at some point with and I think that stops me. That definitely holds me back from really chasing this dream that I go, I want to be coaching and have loads of freedom and kayaking and doing all this because I feel like actually it's a dream, it's not a reality you alluded it to it before, in terms of upper limit problems and what.

Aaron:

What happens, as as you well know, is, as we encroach that we look to but rather than break through to the next level, where the brain has no evidence that the next level is going to work, and taps into all that survival instinct and fear and self-protection mechanisms, as we've talked about in the past before. If you're about to smash through this glass ceiling or cardboard box with the instructions of what to do on the the outside of the box, what, what might those instructions say to you to move yourself?

Jon:

forward for me on the outside of the box rather than the inside, um, I think it. It would literally just say almost like nothing's gone wrong. You're not. You're not going to know what to do until you've come outside the box, and getting outside the box is going to be uncomfortable, simple as that, but it is. This is like that doubt, because what I noticed is I've been buffering more, like I've been drinking more tea and coffee, and I think it's yeah I know that's bad for me, I know, but that's something I do.

Jon:

That's all. I think that's bad for me, I know, but that's something I do. I think that's my perfectionism as well. I think that's my. That's real British. I've just been, I've just been overindulging in tea, caffeinated tea God damn me, eyeballs. It's Yorkshire tea as well, so I'm really hooked. It's where all the bad stuff comes from, up north, and all the drugs.

Jon:

But but and even that is like a perfection thing, like oh, almost. And I think and this is what I think it would say on the top of that box is you don't have to do it perfectly, because I think I should be able to go through that upper limit, go out through what I can believe, whilst going oh yeah, I didn't indulge, I didn't buffer, I didn't do any of that. I just gracefully opened the box, looked at the lid and actually go in. That's not reality. The reality is it's messy, it is messy, you're gonna do it messy, you're gonna going to doubt and you're going to question. And that doesn't mean all that means is that you've reached this point which you didn't believe you could reach, and you've reached there quicker than your belief has sort of caught up with you.

Aaron:

Can I just ask you to change your languages? If you're talking about somebody else, that's cool, use the third person. But if you're talking about somebody else, that's cool, use the third person. But if you're talking about you own it, mate.

Jon:

When I, yeah, yeah, yeah, what was I saying? You was I. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's because I was talking to myself, yeah.

Aaron:

Okay.

Jon:

Yeah. So when I go um, go, um, yeah, when I sort of break out of that yeah, almost, I just I think the thing that helps me is just do it messy as in, like I don't need to know, like I look at now where I am and I didn't know the steps of how I was going to get there. I All I literally had was a vision of what I wanted and the determination of I'm going to get that, and that was my belief. My belief was I'm going to get it, not that I was in 100% belief that I could get it, but I was just like I'm going to get it. And actually looking back at this process then gives me faith that I can then go, because my next stage is to go right, which I started doing now charging for presentations and I go. Actually I got all this evidence. Now I can just go. That's that. But what I want to do is then be in this place where I'm really grateful and appreciate what I've got. That's really the thing.

Aaron:

So which yeah, which, I was just going to ask which one is stronger than the? The desire to move on and break through this level and start charging for presentations, or to be grounded?

Jon:

and grateful for what you've got. I think grateful. Grateful because I know once I set my mind on something, I I achieve it. But it's really that fulfillment and that gratitude with what I've got, because some people seem to find it very natural, like very natural as to that they're grateful every day, whereas that is work I have to do and sometimes I'm doing it and thinking this isn't hitting the mark and I've got so much to be great.

Aaron:

I've got so much to be grateful for I was just going to ask are you doing that?

Jon:

Yeah, Every day, literally. I've got so much to be grateful for. I was just going to ask are you doing that work? Yeah, every day, literally, and often multiple times a day, because I'm trying to consciously and what I find is it is working because my mind does go. Oh, I'm really grateful for that. And I know, as I say to Nicky more, I come home and my dinner was cooked last night A little bit dry, but it's still cooked as it should be. You know who doesn't cook a chicken breast for hour and a half. But I come in and I go and I actually say that because I am really and it's not just words I am really grateful because if not, I come home and I couldn't do what I do. So it's definitely working.

Jon:

But I I think I see other people that are so in the moment and grateful for everything, whereas I'm more I go. Oh, I know I'm very dopaminergic, I go for that next thing. So, like I, I thought once I can go with my kayaking, once I can paddle the upper dark confidently and just go, I do that. I have one coaching session on it than a few times before. But I did a coaching session on it and now I'm like I had one coaching session on it, done it a few times before, but I did a coaching session on it and now I'm like I'd go and do that. And now it's like, oh, now I want to go and do the River Lynn. And so now, suddenly this thing. That was amazing, but it's quite interesting talking about it because you realize I can use this as a tool.

Jon:

And I had this moment of clarity. When was it? It was after I come off the upper diet and I suddenly thought that's not happiness. It doesn't mean that I don't want it, but that is pleasure. What I've experienced there is pleasure. Happiness is here and now, where I am. But I realize I really love the pleasure I do. I get that. I know I've got quite an addictive personality which gets me some stuff, but it's that really grounding myself and going. But what more do I need now?

Aaron:

It sounds to me, from where I'm sitting, that if you're doing the work, that if you are grateful for what you've got, that you're doing the work, that if you are grateful for what you've got, that you're almost comparing yourself and then adding the layer of judgment on top of that, because you assume everybody's always grateful.

Jon:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think other people are like oh yeah, there's a place where they're all just loving where they are and just, and also do you know what I've got? And also do you know what I've I've got? I see that almost it's all or nothing, thinking where there's one or the other, as in you're either a goal, you go out and get shit and but you're not really present, or you're really present and you never want to go and get anything. And I sit, almost see that and I think that's probably maybe what stops me is a blocker to me being grateful, because I almost I wonder if there's a underlying if I'm grateful, if I'm so happy with what I got, which is, ironically, where I used to be. I had no visions for the future before I started coaching. I had no visions of what I could be, what I was capable of, what I could go out and get, and I was. Was I so present? No, I still in that dopaminergic, wanting more. But I only worried about now really, but, um, and yeah, probably there's a fear for me that I've opened up a box where I go almost like shit. Now I know I'm capable of anything I put my mind to and it's just getting that balance between future what creating that new future but not needing that new future because we've got.

Jon:

This year. We, if I looked back mathematically which is something I need to do more we have more money every year. We have more holidays every year. We used to have, if I look back, 12, 13 years ago, we used to have one holiday, camping, which cost £1,000, and I couldn't afford that. We used to go. Where's that money coming from? Well, this year we've got bloody loads booked in and we've got money spare. But that's the problem. My mind doesn't see that. My mind just sees the money I've got is going to go and I'm like ooh, oh, hold on to it, hold on to it.

Aaron:

Scarcity what's one thing you could potentially do, john, just to turn down and or one thing to take away from yourself so that, because it sounds like you, as in your nature, is very out there, very driven, always looking for the next thing.

Jon:

What's one thing you can do to just take a step back to, to ground yourself, potentially that you're not doing I think spend more time, um, like not put so much in I'm definitely better at that but maybe just having that time instead of trying to fill that void doing something or think and this is probably it actually not seeing it as a problem to fix. If this actually wasn't a problem for me, then I'd just be noticing it. I think yes, and I think that would just be like I just I'd just be noticing it. I think yes, and I think that would probably be it, rather than going this is a problem to fix, that I need to be because that's it. That's it. I think I need to be more grateful, I need to be more present and actually that makes me it's like forcing myself in the present. So I think, just noticing it, just notice it and realize this isn't an overnight change, this is gradual, and notice that change. So look back. So for me, I always look back at where I am with my gratitude work, say, for a month, and I am a lot more grateful and a lot more present than I was a month ago. So I think probably doing that is and having that aware and just and just noticing it and bringing the same old thing in it. But it's bringing the noticing and the awareness to it and not seeing it as a problem. So I think when I think of it as a problem, I create tension, which is then ironically, I can see that that when I'm fighting with it I'm then in the future because I'm thinking I need to be almost like I'm going to be. It's going to be better when I'm present and when I'm in the future and I think, well, that's then taking me out of the present rather than just going. If I notice myself.

Jon:

I think I could totally say this If I'm in the present, if I'm noticing myself, go to the future. I'm in the present, whereas I think the present is all like in a summer meadow, oh, just all relaxing and lovely, whereas, yeah, so I just think it's about, for me, it's just about noticing it more and just gently bringing myself back. And I find what has been helping me with when doing like, when you subtract the mental subtraction when I go, when I suddenly go, if I just say I'm really grateful for that and you just, you know, you just don't feel it, you go. I think I'm lying to myself. But then I go. What about if that was taken away? What about if someone took that away and I'm like, oh, I wouldn't like that and that, so that really works for me. But, um, but sometimes that keys into my scarcity. That's all going to be taken away.

Aaron:

Yeah, and I think what you've said there is key for yourself. I'm not sure if that's really landed, but, as you know, when you buy into that belief, it's not going to last. We act and behave in a certain way.

Jon:

And that keeps you where you are rather than going to the next level. Yeah, because when I's not going to last, I can see that, because when I think it's not going to last, no doubt I just feel scared yeah, and then you go into your behavioral loop or pattern of I'm not present, I wish I was further along and and what I do is I think that I mask it with the frustration because then I go oh, because I don't rather than sitting.

Jon:

So I think that's probably something I could do is just sit with that fear, noticing that it comes from it's not going to last, and befriend that fear as in like go well, because what I'm doing at the moment, I think is, as I look at this, is go, I get into my, then doing more. So that is that cycle, isn't it? It's that it's not going to last. So if I thought it's not going to last and I felt the fear and did no more, that belief would not be a problem. But I think it's not going to last. If I feel the fear and then I go well, I best go and do more. Then, and I'm checking my social media and I'm suddenly doing more. I might do a post or something because I feel like I need to do it, and then yeah and yeah, and I can see that loop and it's that and it's that belief. I it's not going to last. And I suppose in some ways there's reality in it, like you think, as we get older and things do get taken away and you go and it's, and for me, I think it's learning to be okay with that.

Jon:

Because when I look back, I always look back and what I have been doing is I look back when I was 20 and I realized I had this fear when I look at it, this belief forever. Forever when I was younger, when things were great or I gotta make the most of it. It's not going to last, but not in a make the most of it gratitude. I was in scarcity. I've got to gather more and I remember when I was 20 and I was going traveling, I used to think, oh shit, I've got to get this done before I'm 40, before I'm in my 40s, because everyone used to say to me and I think a lot of it I was fed into people would say to me, with the injuries you've got when you're 40, you're gonna be fucked.

Jon:

Enjoy yourself. Now. Well, I'm 45 and I felt better than I did when I was 30 with me and but and I think it's about looking at that and actually seeing I held that fear when I was 20 and actually those sort of 20 years, 25 years of thinking is always going to go and actually I've got more now. So it's about, I think, just question for me, questioning that belief and going, yes, it's there, it may always be there, but it doesn't mean it's true and that automatically makes me feel present because I got loads of evidence that's not true I just yeah, I was.

Aaron:

You've highlighted the point that I was gonna question you on, but and and? How does that there's nothing to fix resonate or feel within your body?

Jon:

it just feels it felt. I was just saying I and I don't think I often feel this, like when I coach people. I hear them say it and I think it's nice, but I never is peace when you go like this isn't a problem, but you know this, but this isn't a problem. Just my brain is going oh, it's not gonna last. And then you think, well, actually maybe I don't want it to last, because that's what changes when things change. Because when I don't, when I fear it losing it, I hang on to what I have and I wonder if that is what stops me moving on, almost like I go. I'm fear I'm going to lose something, so I'm going to hang on to it, but I need, maybe I need to let go of that to be able because I've got to become a new version of me to get it.

Jon:

So in other ways it could be, when that comes up going, when I think it's not going to last, I think, yeah, it's good, this isn't going to last, it's going, it is going to change, and then we can move on to who we sort of need to be in the next one and that actually really land. That really lands for me, because I don't feel like I'm lying to myself. I think everything if I look back when I was 20, if I look back at my 20-year-old self and they were going, it's not going to last, I go fucking right, it's not going to last, because when you're 40, you wait until you see who you are when you're 40. It's going to be so different, you're going to be glad that didn't last. It's gonna be so different, you'll be glad that didn't last. So that really, that gives me a sense of calm of yeah, I'm here, now I'm here is there anything to do with that sense of calm?

Jon:

no, I think, just be with it. I think just because because that's what I want, that noticing and going, because when you're in the future, you're always thinking about next, next, next you literally, for me it's like going 100 miles an hour through the countryside and just, whereas this is almost like you're slowing down and looking around and enjoying that journey along the way, because I know it's so fleeting when you get what you want. And I think it's, if nothing else, this process is showing me that the purpose of setting these goals is to identify where the gaps are. For me and I've heard this sort of intellectually loads of times where they go it's not about what you get, it's about who you become. But for me, this really highlights it because I have got now so many things I've set my sights on, but that voice is still there. So it's about going now.

Jon:

All the all these goals are for really are no more than to see is there another limit, is there another void that needs filling? But that's not the goal is to highlight it. For me, the goal highlights it, and then I, then I changed that from within, cause for me, seeing that belief which I I've seen it come up before, but I didn't realize it was now is that it's not going to last. That's my key thing, and realizing that that is the purpose of setting these things and doing these things to help change that belief. No other reason, because if I go, if I stop doing what I'm doing, I'm then always gonna live in the fear of that belief and for me, mate, I, I think we're there for for today.

Aaron:

I, I think we're there and I would. I would stop coaching you and take you off the hot seat, as another coach says, and let you relax into what you've tapped into for today. Yeah, that's real.

Jon:

Thank you very much.

Aaron:

What's the one thing you're going to take away from our chat today to reflect on over the next couple of hours?

Jon:

I think for me it's that not trying to strong-arm that belief out, not trying to get arm that belief out, not trying to get rid of it, just being like, yes, it's there and it's about sitting with it more and noticing it and doing it and actually it's going right. As in like I can still believe it's not good, I can still think it's not going to, I can still think it's not going to work and still take action and keep going and not have to overwork. That's my key thing. As in like nothing's gone wrong. I think the key thing is nothing. There's nothing to fix.

Aaron:

There's nothing to fix. Yeah, that's what I was going to reflect back to you. I noticed that, the subtle change in your posture when you've said that, which is why I asked where does it resonate? There's nothing to fix, and if I was to reflect back to you, it would be that there's nothing to fix and, as you said, just be with it.

Jon:

That's it, and realize that that is because you can't almost see that that is. If I was going to map out the process, I would say process is that. What I've learned is you set a goal, you get all excited loads of dopamine because you got no fear. Then you start taking action. You have all the self-doubt and fear and then you move through that and then you achieve it and then sometimes you go, oh, there wasn't actually the rush and and you think, well, that that is the game. That is the game. So yeah, it's yeah, just that there's nothing to fix, there's nothing gone wrong. This is it. Yeah, love it, john.

Aaron:

Thanks very much for your time, buddy, We'll speak again soon.

Jon:

Cheers mate, Thank you very much.