Forging Resilience
Join us as we explore experiences and stories to help gain fresh insights into the art of resilience and the true meaning of success.
Whether you're seeking to overcome personal challenges, enhance your leadership skills, or simply navigate life's twists and turns, "Forging Resilience" offers a unique and inspiring perspective for you to apply in your own life.
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Forging Resilience
37 Andy McKenzie: "You can’t be just the physical beast..."
Join us on a riveting journey with Andy McKenzie, the esteemed strength and conditioning coach behind No Weak Links.
Hear firsthand how a life-altering accident reshaped his mission, steering him toward coaching and mentoring with newfound zeal. By embracing mistakes and learning continuously, Andy has forged an inspiring path that underscores the importance of resilience, much like the steady growth of a tree.
Andy opens up about navigating personal adversities, including a traumatic spinal injury and divorce. We delve into the importance of self-reflection and adaptation, exploring how these experiences cultivated his empathetic approach to coaching.
By facing setbacks with determination, Andy exemplifies the power of focusing on what remains achievable, even under challenging circumstances, while encouraging listeners to recognize their unique journeys and progress.
Andy McKenzie's wisdom extends beyond fitness, touching on parenting, authenticity, and defining personal standards for success. He shares insights on how physical health supports emotional resilience, particularly in overcoming life's hurdles.
Through personal anecdotes, Andy illustrates the significance of authenticity in building a personal brand and maintaining core values amidst external pressures.
Connect with Andy here:
https://www.noweaklinks.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/ironmacfitness/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-mckenzie-6322a5a1/
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Welcome to Forging Resilience, exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership. Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge success and leadership Right. We're back for season two of Forging Resilience and I'm really honoured to have my first guest in as Andy McKenzie. Andy McKenzie is a strength and conditioning coach and founder of no Weak Links, which is a gym and training methodologies that enhances life beyond the gym, andy. Welcome to our humble show, mate.
Speaker 2:Cheers for having me on, mate. Where did you read that? Know it links from. I need to.
Speaker 1:I need to adapt that well, that's maybe a little side note, makers. It says different things on instagram to linkedin to your website. But what's that between mates?
Speaker 2:but yeah, all right, I'll need to look at that continuity love it, mate.
Speaker 1:Love it, hey. Um. So the reason that I'm speaking to andy today andy is somebody that I've followed his journey for quite a while. I was overseas working in a hot, dusty country I'm not sure if you know this, actually, mate and uh, with with a lad um tick we'll refer to him as and um stuck overseas for a long time and we had lots of free time, um to train, and he suggested I I looked at your stuff way back when, so this would be in 2009 sort of era. So, yeah, I've followed your progression, mate. I've seen you change gyms, I've become a client of yours, you've helped me recover from injury and prepare for certain things, as well as give me a real focus through COVID. So, yeah, it means a lot for me to be able to invite you on and get to find out a bit more about you and let people know what you're doing the world, mate. But, um, yeah, for for people, give people a relevant short snapshot overview of you, mate. Um, what leads you to be sat in that pretty smart looking office today?
Speaker 2:yeah, this is where I really need an elevator pitch um. Essentially just to give people context so they can understand um. Where I'm coming from is I spent 16 years in the military and within that I was lucky enough to have a really diverse career in terms of um. I had a. I had a bad accident that gave me a complete and utter um different view of the military in the world. I seen a different part of it which I thought never knew that existed. I'm going to go and try that.
Speaker 2:And then from there I then left after 16 years and I pursued um work in professional rugby and then I always had this little burning ambition to own my own gym and I always remember writing down this five-year plan and ticked them off gradually and literally. It brings me here today where I'm coaching and mentoring other fitness industry professionals. I work with really high net worth individuals very closely one-to-one, and I also run the Know it Links group, which you're part of as well. So that has been, when I look at it, a series of just mistakes after mistakes and continually learning and going. Do you know what that didn't work? Let's try this, and that's the way I like. I've always got like a real optimistic view of life, and I'd rather look back and think, yeah, I did that and made a mess of it, but at the same time, it just gives you an incredible and I mean, I know we're going to talk about resilience, but it builds something that you can draw on year after year as well.
Speaker 1:so I think that's it me in a me in a nutshell yeah, I love that mate, love that, um, in terms of your just that last point you covered there, making mistakes. Does that is that in your own training and business as well? Because I'm always fascinated, or at least from the outside. We see certain people. They're physically, they can do certain things. We assume that they've been doing the right things all those years. But I'm getting a hint of the possibility that it's learning, constant learning, rather than constant perfection, at least in terms of training.
Speaker 2:Yes, in terms of training then because if you think, oh, a fitness professional must be doing things right all the time, yet it's the challenges to actually follow through on your own stuff, because sometimes you've got that beast within you that wants to do more.
Speaker 2:And I'll give you an example of mistakes from injuries myself, um, I've, I've pushed it too hard just because I love training. And then I have to have that self-talk or I chat with other guys, um, in my network and and get and have that bounce back and say, hey, what would you actually do in this situation? And it's like, yes, and then you go back and you reframe and you move on. So, um, yeah, I think when people try and avoid mistakes and this is where, when you look at from a fitness or business, if you can really um stall progress or even not do anything because you're so worried about making a mistake, when an actual fact some of that, you'll always get huge amount of value um afterwards and even um that during it you might find something that's not even been thought of or like a new way, and that's why I just, whenever I'm working with people, it's almost like look, just do something, and then you can always discuss afterwards yeah, I love that mate.
Speaker 1:Um, so what has allowed you, then, to create that environment for yourself, both in terms of training and business, where you have accepted, welcomed or embraced those mistakes, to move yourself on rather than make it mean something else? Do you think?
Speaker 2:I don't think there's any other option. I don't think there's any other option for me. I just I just consider I have to move forward in some capacity. Um. So, rather than think about trying to build, um, yeah, I think simply, I just want to move forward and and therefore I've got to accept, and that's just a part of the process.
Speaker 1:Can you talk to us a little bit about your journey, mate Sorry, your injury and the journey of recovery, the challenges you've had around. I've heard you speak a little bit about it Injury or injuries that's what you say.
Speaker 2:The first one I'd like to point out that I've never injured myself in training. Okay, only once, um, but majority of time it's just been like doing crazy stuff, um. So the the biggest injury that literally changed my career path was I fell three stories out of a window, um landed, fractured three parts of my spine, t46 and eight damaged my neck, um literally radial fracture of my elbow, and essentially I've got a spine that looks like a toblerone and but doesn't but it's stronger than one in fact. No, they're actually quite tough, aren't they?
Speaker 2:the big ones are yeah, and so for me that changed the trajectory of my career. I was always going to go to like one way and then that was like stop, re-evaluate and then move on from there. And the crazy thing is when I, when I really consider everything that happened like, so, if you look at that massive, uh, traumatic injury spinal and the military being the military, I was sat up in the back of a land rover and then drove, drove into hospital, do you know I mean? And a rickety into hospital, do you know what I mean? And a rickety old 110 with crappy suspension and stuff like that. And yeah, that really set me on a path of going into rehab in terms of the rehabilitation side, because, if you consider, I always seen like one lens of the military that was exercise train for operations, come back and then repeat. And there was this other way of wow, this is like the physical aspect. And then I looked and I thought, if I can't do the job that I want to go and do I want to do this guys. And that was my recalibration and that took me probably about three or four years to finally change career paths because I had to get over the injury first and foremost, went to headley court, went through um I think it was early spines into spines and then you go into lates and then in my infinite wisdom um being the character I am, that I I did a second uh spinal injury, um, which was again, this was just an accident. I can always remember doing jump squats with a bar on my back, watching Foo Fighters on the TV and thinking I've been in a Foo Fighters concert before reliving a memory. And then, you know, when you suddenly forget about it, bang and I was like, oh, I've done something that I shouldn't have done. And it was like um lost sensation left side of my leg and I essentially was like a LL4, l5 disc prolapse and a protrusion like stacked, which was just a nightmare.
Speaker 2:The the great thing was is I was actually on my um remedial instructors course at the time and on my spines and you do these modules, I was on my spines module, so it's a bit like great. I can really sort of understand like how people actually go through this. I mean this was. I mean that that's like years apart as well. So then I mean I'll sort of I know I'm jumping around a bit I got back to operational an operational after that initial spine injury about three or four years, and then when I transferred into the physical training core, that's when I had the second big injury and that's when they blew my discs.
Speaker 2:And that was a nightmare because I remember being on placements and essentially I didn't want to get put back to the start. So I was like, right, this is a time where I've just got to grin and bear it. And it was just insane because here was me with a horrendous back injury, popping loads of proofing and painkillers, because it's a military and that's part of what you do. What you do, and it, I mean for me, opened the, the, the empathy side, a lot more of um, how bad sort of like people get it. Because when I, when I initially fractured my spine, it sounds horrific, wrong, but it actually wasn't that bad. Essentially it was a bone it heals.
Speaker 2:I was in a back brace for like six months and after that happened it was just a gradual process of getting fitter and stronger. When I damaged my discs, it was completely changed because there were neural issues that I had to overcome. I had to really consider the way I walked and then hide this whole thing as well, because I was on course. So yeah, they were two really big injuries I went through. And then the only other big one I see, when I was on my PTI course on my adventure training side.
Speaker 2:I remember dragging back in the Marin Trail mountain biking in North Wales, flipped over the handlebars and snapped my shoulder blade, which was horrendous, and I thought I had dislocated my shoulder and I always remember it sort of falling out and I thought, oh, this is something quite big here Sitting up and as I sat back up it was almost this all the way back in cycling back. I was on my paddling course and then rock climbing after that and again, it's that briefing, just get on with it. Instructors were great because I was like, look, I've hurt my shoulder and they stand by the side, you can just watch and you can coach, because we were learning to coach at that time. Three or four weeks later I still wasn't right, got an x-ray and it's all right. Yeah, you've, you've, um, you've cracked or snapped your scapula. Here's the big line.
Speaker 2:I was like, wow, this is horrendous. And again, that was, yeah, a painful, uh, a painful lesson, but at the same time, when you consider I was on a physical course, there was always a mindset of right, this is damaged, but what else can I do? I can train my lower body, I can train my core, I can train my left arm, um, and I didn't really have any loss of muscle mass because I just kept on trying to do something, um. So there were three big, horrendous injuries yeah, mate, there's, there's.
Speaker 1:They're quite big ones to try and wrestle through, mate, which speaks to me to two things. First of all, like you've just alluded to that, yeah, what else can I do, looking at other possibilities, rather than dwelling on just one side of the swing of the pendulum the injury but also that, that the character, which is what I see, that determination and and drive which has probably served you very well in lots of different things and, as we'll probably come on to it, sometimes for certain people that comes as a cost as well, that constant need to drive on, push on. In terms of that first injury, then you touched on that empathetic side that you could. You started to tap into for other people that are injured. But what led you to the yeah, the PT call then? Was it more the intention of helping people or was it the interest in the body and an overcoming injury there? Did you go and see him there?
Speaker 2:there's two yeah, um, I was always interested in training. I mean if, even from a very young age and even when I was in the uh, the regiment, I was a bit like, okay, um, do you mean if I wasn't sort of work or I weren't on ops, weren't on exercise, I was always down to gym training and I never really I never really as again when I spoke earlier, I never really seen that other aspect of the military. I never knew that you could do a lot of sport in the military and things like that. So it was almost like closed off. It was literally just exercise ops and you rotate off. It was literally just exercise ops and you rotate.
Speaker 2:And it was the first time I remember being in earlies and just thinking I'd really love to do that job and it was. It was a combination of one, this guy really knew his stuff and two, it was like a really good environment. It was. You mean, you could see like 10, 15 people they had there genuinely helping them succeed, because there were some people with worse injuries than mine and it's just the way that he really sort of could coach, have that ability to actually communicate, which are quite complex things but in a very, very simple way and for me, I knew that I couldn't continue in the path, that I wanted to go on in military. So when that opened up I was like, hey, I can do that and that that's what really set me on that path. Yeah, love that mate cheers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so talking a bit about resilience then, mate. Um, obviously you've. You've been able to deal with adversity and set it back in terms of injury and, no doubt, other stuff as well, but what does resilience mean, mean to you?
Speaker 2:and, yeah, resilience for me, right is is twofold. On one hand, I think you have to prepare for it. It's not just something that you actually get, it's not um, it's not something you literally endure and suffer with and then, all of a sudden, you'll become resilient. And I think that's where, if you look at what a lot of people online are like, it's like, yeah, go through the hard times and you'll come out a better person. Yeah, you can to some degree, but if you want to become genuinely resilient, you have to first prepare the second one, actually test that preparation. And then the third aspect is review everything you've actually done. And if you view it like that, you will genuinely become more robust and you'll expand and you'll have more capacity. And I think that's what a lot of people miss. They suffer unnecessarily whereas there is actually a better way to do it.
Speaker 2:And I always describe resilience to my clients as trying to build the biggest tree possible, and resilience is the actual trunk. And a lot of people they're a young sapling and they're looking at a big oak with a huge canopy and it's a bit like okay, even if I gave you like a magic pill and you could grow to that height right now, you still wouldn't have all of the key attributes that that big tree has gone through, like the continual high winds, the harsh winters. I mean, you would spread up to that height, you'd have one harsh winter, one high wind and you would snap, whereas the whole idea of that tree getting there is being through cycles and cycles and cycles. And I think that's a really important thing. And when I see young coaches, they always look at other people and think, oh, I want to get to where they are, and it's like, ok, you need to really understand where you are right now and then prepare yourself to go through this, these cycles, and always self-reflect and I think that's a genuinely important thing is to reflect and understand where did it go wrong? Where did it where, where did things actually come right and what was new, what came out? And you will build that capacity and you will build that capacity. And the only other thing that I would say is it's not as transferable as other people make out.
Speaker 2:And this is where a lot of people will say if you just train in the gym, you're automatically going to become resilient, but then they get hit with a divorce or they get hit with you know. I mean, they lose a business and all of a sudden it's like everything falls apart and they've got no real idea of like, how do I adjust to this? Because they haven't got this system as such. They don't really know how to have a sit down and a stock take and see right, where am I right now? And then you'll go online and people will be banging on about running with their top off and I'm building resilience and it's no, you're not. You're just doing something you genuinely enjoy and that's not gonna. That's not gonna transfer.
Speaker 2:Um and and I found that out from that leaving the military, I went through a divorce and it was like sidewinding a missile Wasn't expecting it completely and that your life turns over and other people think, well, you've done all this in the military, why can't you handle that? And it's like I wasn't prepared for that. And it's until you actually sit there and go right, take stock where am I? And then move on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it, mate. You've touched on so many interesting things there yes, big answer there.
Speaker 2:Sorry, no, I love it.
Speaker 1:That's where I wanted it to go, mate. I think this is where it helps me explore my ideas, because it's for me. Resilience is different things to different people at different times, and my, even though I use it in the name of this podcast, it's just because I plucked it out the air, really, and um, half joke, half not joke, but it's something that's very, very relevant and I'd love that you've touched, touched on. So there's three things you touched on. So, yeah, that that sapling.
Speaker 1:Also, what I'm hearing is that those roots need to be given time, and for me, that's the basics and it doesn't. That's different things to different people. So that's the first thing. I love the fact that you've differentiated between emotional and physical resilience, because that's a big thing. For me, there is a little bit of overlap, but not not as much, and that's why I think some of us well, at least let me own this I have struggled in the past because I it was all physical and there's no emotional. So now I'm learning to be emotionally resilient, which is, for me, slightly different.
Speaker 1:But also, you talk about that new coach wanting to be somewhere, and when we stand, it's this really vivid image in my mind. I heard of somebody talking about the value bias, in the sense of we are stood on top of our own mountain or hill and we can't see our experience because it's beneath our feet. All we see is people above us and their journeys and what they've done to get there, or the people below us. We forget where we're stood rather than concentrating on ourselves there. But, yeah, so in terms of your own resilience, then, mate, if we look at slightly more the emotional side In terms of your own resilience, then mate, if we look at slightly more the emotional side, what things have you done to set yourself up, to get back up from injury, from the divorce and, no doubt, business setbacks and stuff that's gone on in life there, mate, is there anything that?
Speaker 2:you can draw on or share. That has helped you. Mistakes made when I first got divorced is I kept it all in like a vessel and if I, if that happened again, I would literally speak to someone quicker to actually um, bounce thoughts, I mean, I would have, I would have sought counseling or someone else with um, with a professional, um, ear, um, especially when it comes to mindset, um and the psychology of what's actually happening. And so that would be uh one in terms of you know what you were saying there about the, the emotional overlap to the um, the physical. One of the things which is really important from the physical aspect, where it complements the emotional side, is, if you are fit, healthy and strong, you're always going to have the capacity to actually deal with the emotional side a little bit better. Because as soon as something happens and you stop training and let's say that you turn to alcohol or you eat excessive food or you don't eat your general health is going to be impacted and that will literally pull you down. So if you've always trained, then you stop training, it can lead to depression, and if you look at the studies on depression, where a lot of people get out of it by actually moving their body in training. This is where you get that carryover and I think it's really important. So when I look back to all the times where I've been emotionally blasted, I'm really thankful for my health and that's why I place a lot of importance on that.
Speaker 2:At the same time, you can't just be the physical beast.
Speaker 2:You've got to be emotionally like sound.
Speaker 2:You've got to be um, you've got to really improve your emotional intelligence and this is where, um, it's not just about books, it's genuinely about self-reflection and saying I was generally wrong there, or I was an asshole there, or I could have improved on this, and this is a, a character flaw that I have and then and then really stay with that as well, because a lot of people and I've done it before where um, but if you consider it, the, the military default is just go out for a drink, go on the piss.
Speaker 2:I stopped drinking a while back because I knew that that, for me, was a distraction. It was like I'll just have a few beers and it. You mean, the, the bottom of a glass is never really the answer that you want, and I have felt my capacity shift more in terms of understanding who I am as a man, by allowing myself to sit with it, um, and not distracted. So that really helps that emotional side, which is hugely important, because when you can tap into both, you will invariably not become a better man, you become a different man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's brilliant, mate, and I think there's something that comes to me to share as well. Is that so with emotions? Often, if we consider that there's an action to take, the other side be be that a race, be it a certain weight to lift in a competition or something to physically do we can put that emotion energy into motion, which is what it's designed to do, at some way, shape or form. But when it's emotional, what most of us aren't taught as young lads, and especially from certain backgrounds, is what to do with that and, just like you said, they're bottling it up. There's nowhere for that energy to go, um. So for me now, emotional resilience is being able to have the awareness, to notice what's coming up, be able to express it in some way, shape or form, allow it, like you said, and gently separate myself from it so that, because I feel this doesn't make me that, and then get back up and go again, um.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I love what you've shared there, mate yeah, well, I see, one of the other things that, just as you were talking here, this light bulb, I think, regardless of what actually happens in your life, it really shouldn't define. You know who you are. It, whatever happens, is what you do with it, and and it's almost like the next day. And I think that's the key thing, because for me, um, I always remember that when, when I left the military, I had a loss of identity and then when I had the divorce, it I had a loss of identity, and then when I had the divorce, it was almost then a loss of identity, and I was like, well, what will other people think? But once you actually flip that on its head and then think, well, what do I do now?
Speaker 2:This is the most important factor is, what do I do with all this adversity that's genuinely happened, and how do I take that into the next chapter of my life? Because you can really trip yourself up and repeat the same mistakes over and over again, and that's when you'll think there's a problem here. But I guess this is where it comes back to not bottling up, not doing the things that you've always done, and when you come back to this idea of what is resilience for me? Preparing for it, doing the things that you've always done. And when you come back to this idea of like, what is resilience? It's like for me, preparing for, preparing for it, doing the thing and then having the review. And when you, when you haven't had any preparation, you have to do one thing and that's skip to the review part and go right. What exactly has gone on? Where am I right now and how can I literally know that can move forward?
Speaker 2:Because life is like a repeat and you can have a repeat and descend, or you can. You can have a repeat in ascend and the only way you can ascend is by just taking a brutal stock take and just allowing yourself to move forward but not really be anchored to. Oh, that was me and it's like, well, yeah, that was you a year ago, but you're allowed to be different. They're like one year later, two years later, and I meet guys, like from the military side of it, and I feel like a completely different man, and that's purely because I've just allowed myself to learn and adapt, open myself up spiritually, open myself up emotionally, allow myself to cry, you know. I mean all of these simple things that seem so anti-male to some degree. Yet they're really strong things that you can actually do to to move forward yeah, no, exactly that.
Speaker 1:And and thanks for sharing that, mate, because I know that's not always easy to talk about, even if we're comfortable with it which I am comfortable in being able to do that but it still brings up a certain resistance in speaking it out into the world like this. Hence the reason I think sometimes these conversations are so valuable. Um, yeah, and, and I think that's the key, though, is there's nothing here to fix. What we're experiencing is experiencing is the, the human experience. What we can't do is compare I know it's very normal to to to what other people have gone through, but we all go through our own version of the, the, the rough seas, um, and I was speaking to my mentor in tears the other day about something, and how did she challenge me? It's like, yeah, so rather than getting tied to making this mean something, the ability to express it helped me have a new awareness of it, that limiting belief.
Speaker 1:It's not that I don't want to share it, it's just not coming to me now. Yeah, there you go. It's not that I'm disappointed. Yeah, it goes right back to childhood. So certain struggles in business right back to childhood. This isn't a disappointment. I'm making it mean I'm disappointing, which is a very big difference. So that carries very heavy and even I can say that I can feel that in my chest, in my abdomen, feels in my, I can feel that in my, in my chest, in my abdomen. Yet being able to speak, that I gain, gain a new awareness and I can have other people hold that space for me and just gently challenge or question, and sometimes it takes that other person to show you that next mini step. It's up to us whether we take it or not. But I guess, guess that's what you're kind of saying that that awareness gives us more options.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know the interesting thing right, what you're saying there is you have a mentor that you can speak your truth to some degree, and I've got a coach as well and she's wonderful. But one of the things that I really enjoy is so we were talking the other day and it was this idea of you've heard it, I get to or I've got to Now. I've heard that thing over and over again, but I think when you hear it in subtly different ways and it really strikes a chord and she explained that to me again with this idea of rather than saying I've got through this, because it's very, very easy, you have to really be mindful of your words. Whereas you're, if you're having a bad day, you can feel that tension coming up and so I've got to do so. I've got to do that.
Speaker 2:But the beautiful flip of I've I get to actually sit down in a great office, write three or four of these programs I know it's going to have an amazing impact and just that layer of positivity or really sort of like a feel good factor in your own mindset, in your own psych, is so important. And I think what I'm trying to get at get at is I've seen that online they get to, got to and literally I've acknowledged it, scroll past, never really thought about it. But when someone's in your, in your and I see my coach in person, I've been, I that's what I prefer. But when somebody actually you're in there, in the truly in the moment, with somebody who can actually really convey those words, it's it's like straight through the body, armor into the right space and I think that's um. Yeah, that was um. It's one of the great things about um mentoring and just uh, putting yourself out there as well, 100%, mate, it's.
Speaker 1:The thing is, though, it's very uncomfortable, it's. It's not all roses and, and at least in my experience, oh, no, me being coached.
Speaker 1:It's. It's fucking hard work. I don't enjoy it, um, but I know and this probably ties on quite nicely to the next bit that the people that I said this so many times in my podcast, but my mum and my gran can't ever hear this enough that when, when I grow, so do the people that I know love and like and work with and for me that's directly my kids, so that I get to I I show up differently for them, um, which I'm sure you can relate to being a, being a father as well yeah sorry I've got burt smith.
Speaker 2:I was. I was drinking uh, I was drinking one of them, san pellegrino's um orange drinks and I'm like full of gas at the minute.
Speaker 1:Have you tried? Do you have Vichy Catalan in the UK? No, vichy Catalan. Okay, Next time you're over this corner of the world, try that, mate. It's quite a nice sparkling water. That's how mental it is these days, anyway. So going on to fatherhood, mate. So how do you try and give your kids their own space to discover their own place in the world, given that we've come from certain backgrounds and all gone through our own sort of trials and tribulations? What do you do to try and create a that space and environment for for your kids, mate?
Speaker 2:that is the challenge of a parent, isn't it?
Speaker 1:That's one of the I've.
Speaker 2:I've raised that with so many guys actually, because when, when I consider the life that I've come from, um like really poor and destitute sort of um childhood. But I mean, if you look back to what the seventies cause, I'm old, I think everybody was like that and it's one of the things I'm still trying to get right is how do I foster some sort of grit and determination in my children but at the same time give them things I could never have? But one of the things for me is, especially again as a man, I can't hug my kids enough and I can't tell them I love them enough. I think that's one thing. The other one is and this is really the, I guess the, the the positive part of social media. I've learned so much from how you say things to your children that could have such a profound impact. Um, and that's what I'm thankful for, when some of these people put out really good information. I'm like man, the next couple of generations, I mean everybody says, oh, these next generation are going to be soft. I'm a bit like well, I think they're going to be. I think they're going to turn the world on its head to some degree because they would have had like a different sort of respect from their father, because he speaks to him in a better way but equally shows him love, shows him understanding.
Speaker 2:For me, then, how do I allow my kids to grow and develop? I mean, I've got the gym, and one of the things I always said that I do whenever I had kids is I would produce my business because I wanted to spend that first sort of four years with them as much as I could. So I was with the kids, um, obviously in lockdown two years horrendous time for some. I was grateful that I had that time with them and I look back and I think I could easily go and do that again. Um, I just stand back and allow my kids to be. So it's the simple things like appreciating. They're actually and it sounds bizarre, but appreciating they're actually three and four years old, and what I mean by that is, let's say, if you look at something as simple as going down a slide and they're not ready for it and you can just suddenly jump in and go, ah, let's just do it and we'll do it anyway, trying to push them over the edge of fear, Whereas I've just thought, well, I'm just going to let them do it on their own time. So it's like, okay, we'll do it another day and then come back. And then when they take ownership of it and I do it, then they see me do it over and over again and try that, and then I let them go and do the thing and for me that I think that's been hugely important. And this is just um me trying to do something different.
Speaker 2:And I guess when I, when I consider everything I've ever done wrong, from sailor, childhood, in the military, in sport, and the job that I do now, whenever I see or go through an experience, and I think, hmm, and it's not a positive one, it's a negative one.
Speaker 2:You know, like I mean, I was bullied in sort of primary school, had a hard time in the military to some degree. You know, it's like when you first join regiments you see people who are just not good characters and I always had that mindset of when I'm in that position, of like that person there. When I'm a sergeant, when I'm this, I want to be different. I want to make people be able to walk through my door and ask me a question and not feel scared. I want to be open and that's really the way of. That's the approach I have with my children is to really be there but, at the same time, know that in terms of being strong, well, being strong is like an energy. So if I'm training in the gym and I'm strong physically, strong mentally, I don't have to tell my kids I'm strong. They'll feel that, They'll know that energy that's around them.
Speaker 1:So that's the way I'm trying to navigate it at the moment yeah, well, I, I hear that you're walking, that walk and and I think the way that you're talking and walking, that is because you can hold that space for yourself, so then you can do that for others. At least, that's that's what I see and and interpretate that as mate, because I don't think we can give that love if we haven't loved, learned to love ourselves, or or if that sounds like too much accept ourselves and the mistakes and the highs and lows, or acknowledge the highs, um, reward ourselves, be proud of the highs as well as accept the the lows and the side swiping moments and everything else in in, in between mate, andy, what's um that? That's a fascinating thing. I could, I could stay there all day, right, because between resilience, mindset, kids and emotions, but I'm keen just to sorry.
Speaker 2:They'll test your resilience to some degree, won't they?
Speaker 1:it's like do they ever mate? In fact, it's a good point. I'll tell you a little story about this. I, yeah, I think the reason my kids are a bit older than yours that uh, eight and nine and my daughter has got such a strong will. It's incredible. She's so determined, it's so admirable, and I need to be so careful to manage myself not to dampen that, because as a young girl, she'd be sat there for half an hour trying to do her shoelaces and I'm thinking hurry up.
Speaker 1:But that is the sort of thing where I have to have my own awareness of what I'm projecting or vomiting or confining her to. The other day, I caught myself about to have a hissy fit. She came home late from gymnastics training. Um, I was tired. She was even more tired. She'd had a dinner. It was a rough dinner because there's vegetables and fish on the menu and, um, yeah, I was managed to stay patient, stay calm.
Speaker 1:I could feel this tension rising up and as she went upstairs I did the washing up. She didn't get ready for bed, she's just messing around and I caught myself and I was about to slam my head down, my hand down on the bed to scare her into doing what I wanted to do. I caught myself this time. It was a horrific feeling because I saw that in her eyes it was already too late in that sense.
Speaker 1:But here's the awareness part that I could step back for just a second and what I realized is that I recognized in that moment, when I'm not being heard, I assume I'm not being loved, and that was massive for me. That was absolutely massive, because then I got to go back, talk about how this was my stuff to deal with, not hers. But without awareness, without compassion for myself and trying to project this need for a perfect timetable and to be in bed on time, I wouldn't have caught that. And it's that sort of thing that awareness for me is so important, and how they test us, because I love her so much. I know she's tired, she needs a rest, to get into bed. But yeah, it means I have to work very hard on myself which is not a problem so that I can provide the best opportunities for them, so that I'm not forcing them down into my vision or version of how to be in the world or how to be on time yeah, that's huge and what.
Speaker 2:What a moment that is, though, to actually just like pause and see yourself. Um, it's interesting. It's almost like this you're finally becoming an adult because when you, when you consider it, you, you, you can easily go back to childlike teenager blame, defend, defend your actions, blame her for doing this, but in actual fact, it's it's within you and it's it's your um, your um ability to actually pause. In that moment that you start to become an adult because you're, you're able to do that, and I think that's a really strong thing to to be able to do.
Speaker 2:And at the same time, even unless you just say you did slam, but afterwards to realize that that wasn't right and then reflect, and then then put steps into place the next time as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and yeah then put steps into place. The next time as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think it's being human in front of them owning up to our mistakes and having those conversations and it's not to say I get that all the time. I don't. This time I did catch it and another time, after a little discussion. We were to do some breath work and I'm not big into breath work, but to sit there with the breathingher nap for two minutes and it's something that I've caught her doing on her own as well, before gymnastics I think it's massive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, and I know this isn't because I'm a perfect parent or good parent, but it goes back to that awareness wanting to do things differently so they can be their own people in this world, which, again, which is probably why the reason I'm so drawn to speak to you, mate, because you have, in my opinion, managed to carve out your own way of being in this world, in terms of not only just you but how you serve other people and and your business, which is fascinating to be able to, to see and be part of, mate. So, yeah, it's to acknowledge that. First of all, thank you. But I'm just I'm keen to to hear how you help find your voice in a world that is potentially quite noisy around fitness and looks and and how we need to be. What is it that's helped you bring that voice out, speak.
Speaker 2:Speak your truth because I actually do the thing that I talk about continuously, year after year. I think that's really the only answer I can give. I've, um, I've been doing it a long time, and you, you just watch trends, um, and I'm not really, um, I'm not really moved by them. If you, if you consider it like high rocks is on trend at a minute, which I think is super cool, because, uh, you, um, people need to challenge themselves, um, but yeah, I, I guess, how do I, how can I stand out Without banding around the authenticity thing? I do what I say, that I do online, and I think that's the only way, because when you, let's say, for example, you get attacked, well, what are you actually attacking? Your truth or the thing you're hiding? And if you're hiding, then you'll feel compelled to defend it, or, at the same time, you might not actually put anything out there. So, uh, yeah, that's, I think that's how I've um, well, that's the only way I'm still here, if that makes sense yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:And if you had help and support trying to finding that voice and a methodology and look, or is that something you've developed yourself? And aesthetic, I mean not not your physical one, but your brand. There you go.
Speaker 2:That's, I guess, what I'm saying in terms of help, um, I get you. You don't do things on your own right. You, you're always learning from other people. Um, and I think that's really important, um, I've paid for, you know, like certain things, I paid for mentorships. I learn um, so there's all of that sort of thing that comes to mind. I guess, um, I'm really fortunate enough that I understand my strengths in terms of I, I'm creative, I'm very good at solving problems. So whenever anything's happened during like, for example, when COVID hit, I flipped that very, very quickly and I think I got through that pretty well. So for me, I understand that that's one of my sort of like superpowers, and it's only through yeah, just having that aspect of just moving forward, that it comes through. But in terms of yeah, is that an answer?
Speaker 1:It is for me, mate. Yeah, it is for me, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the other aspect then is I'm not trying to be anyone else, because that's when you can really lose yourself, and when I chat to like not necessarily younger coaches, but any, any coach, I always get them to go back to how do they, how do they want to live their day and how do they want to deliver their product, and a few other questions, and then really dialing in on that. I think it's very, very easy to just get carried away with the noise, because that's what it is. It's simply like just noise, and what I've found is, over the years, people, people have sought me out because they're lost. So if you consider this one of the guys I'm training at the minute Juvica he's a Serbian anti-terrorism guy, runs an amazing runner but always injured, and I've helped him with his strength training to really take him to the next level, and he was one where he just sat back, was diligent and just looked and thought right, is this guy who he actually says he is? And for me that's really, really important, because if you are literally just changing your mind I mean, it's fine to change your mind, but all the time with like trends and stuff like that, then people are going to start raising questions and for me, like, I understand what I like and and I lead a simple life to some degree, and again, that's another thing that I think is really important um, but when you look at the social media space and from a, from a business perspective, and, and everybody's talking about building a brand, you, um, you have to do it with them. But then, element of truth, because if, when you start line, I think that the phrase is if you're gonna lie, then make sure you've got a good memory, and so you have to really consider aspects like that. But it's a challenging one because there is. But again, this is, I guess, when I look at business mistakes, um, and I'll probably lead into that, actually, because my business mistakes initially were looking at all these really good marketers who were, who could just like they could, um, they could sell dog shit and I mean, but with a, with a pretty rapper part of my French, um, but after a while rapper part of my French and after a while it's like there's only so many rappers you can actually know that by and again, this was the mistakes I was making.
Speaker 2:To start was thinking, oh, I've got a and I had all this market knowledge and just getting lost. So, and even like when I was following other coaches initialize like, oh, I'm gonna buy their program, this program, this program, until one day. I was like, right, hold on a minute, I really need to understand. For example, how do I program myself that? What makes me me? How can I start to carve my own path so that if anything happens, I can quickly change it, rather than go, oh, I've bought this thing, it hasn't worked, how do I fix it? And it's not buy another product. It's look, understand the basics and then then build on that.
Speaker 2:And for me, I, when I maybe when I look at and think, all right, why am I so here, why have I actually carved out like, uh, this brand, this niche, this look, is because I just stopped, um, buying in other people's content or the way they do stuff, and just thought, right, what are the fundamentals that I really need to get right. And it's like right, what's my product? And then for me that how do I actually want to live and run my day? So, instead of listening to everybody else's morning routines, it's like hey, what's mine, how do I actually want to do what I want to do? Um, and what's the financials and when. When you start to piece all of them together, you suddenly become well, not suddenly, but well, it's a it's a sudden thing to everybody else, but it's a long time in the making. But you generally just ooze what you do on a day-to-day basis. So I guess, yeah, that would I mean. That's another factor, I would say, of why I've done that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that. And what a brilliant question. That is, mate, what makes me me, and one that I guess changes quite often, but again, it speaks to me about that perception. You have the self-awareness and and the constant reviewing, but not getting tied to anything and, like we've said earlier, speaking your truth and I'm keen, now that we've got you here, given all of your experience, and especially with with training just to ask you one question around that, in terms of guys that might be listening to this, around our age mid 40s, nearing our 50s um, in terms of three basic sort of principles or things that they can look at in terms of moving themselves on in terms of health and fitness, what three basic bits of advice might you, apart from handing out your own details, help guide them towards?
Speaker 2:so first, one that I would say, which is genuinely, I'll say, the biggest one right is setting your own personal standard. When you because if you set a goal, it's very, very easy to move that goal and everybody like. So I've got this thing. If you draw a line in the sand, the sea can come and swipe it away. Personal standards for me are your line in concrete and once you actually set that standard, it gives you a couple of things one, it gives you something to aspire to and then, once you've got there, something to uphold and if you start slipping something, you can go oh, hold on a minute. I set this personal standard where what are the aspect of my life is starting to inflict into those standards. So I think that's that's key. Those standards can be across the board. They don't have to be like, they don't have to just be physical. They could be, um, like how you run your life, um, in terms of, like, what time you? Um, if we go into, say, like, from a business perspective, right, um, what? What time do you want to start? What time do you want to finish? Because let's say, for example, you want to finish by I don't know four and somebody wants a call at half four. Now you could. You could really sort of like set and go nope, it's four or nothing. But very, very easily it could be a bit mission creep. I'll just do that one at half four and then all of a sudden things start changing. That will have an impact because you've made a decision about how you actually want to live and then you can when you look at that, when you do the reviews, you can think, oh, the mission creep was I started to allow people to expand my day. So that's one thing about standards. Just to give you some physical ones, I think. I think it's a minimum, right, and I'm going to go out here and I love when people sort of like jump in and start wagging fingers and stuff like that is.
Speaker 2:I think if you've been training a good couple of years, you should be able to do 10 chin-ups, and if you can't do that, there's something wrong with your training and I know you wiped your head there, ron. The second one of that is, for me, 30 push-ups like chest to the floor, straight arms, really, really simple stuff, but you should be able to do that. And it's not do 30, fall over, can't do 31. It should be 30 with ease. And again and this is where people need to understand if you've been training a number of years, then that should be it. It's not saying like, on day one you should push there. But if you've been training and you're doing it right, you should be able to do that. But if you've been training and you're doing it right, you should be able to do that.
Speaker 2:Because if you can do those two things, one, it tells me that you take your training seriously, and what I mean by that is you set a standard of doing 12 sessions every month. So I don't tell people that you've got to do like three or four per week. I say look, if you can get 12 sessions in in any given month, you're doing well, so have that as a personal standard. What that allows right is allows you flexibility and it allows you to say oh man, there's just been a savage week for whatever reason. Do you know what I mean? Like kids falling down, broken leg, whatever it is, and I couldn't do my gym session, but I know that I'll be able to make it up. So that's what it does, but it gives you a guiding light so that you know that, right, I need to get these sessions in, because that's what I said, but you've got that month to do it.
Speaker 2:But, going back to the physical thing, if you can do the tension ups, the say, 30 dips, 30 press ups, it just tells me that you've been training and you take your training seriously and that means that you respect your body enough to actually let it move to. You've got really good shoulder health because you moved it through like a full range, like overhead, like back into extension, and therefore you're going to minimize the the chance of injury. I'm not saying that you can, there's going to stop it but you can minimize that because you're taking your body through a really good, solid range of movement and you're integrating with the rest of the other body. I mean we could do a whole podcast in terms of what else I would have from from a physical perspective. But I mean to give you another one is I think you should be able to do like 100 bodyweight squats in under two minutes and then, once you've actually reached that, then there's other things you can then improve your standards.
Speaker 2:But the key thing is is going back to, you have to have something that let's just say. For example, you, um, you take on more work than you should have, you don't do as much training and then one day you jump down. It's like you struggle to do 25 press ups, but then. So what that does right, struggle to do 25 press-ups, but then. So what that does right is it allows you right, hot em. What's actually happened here? Let's do a little bit review. I'm doing too much work, um, but am I panicking because of something's happened or have I let the finances slip? And therefore you need to. It will. It will allow you to put standards into other areas so that they don't impose on the physical aspect, and this is where you can start to spread that out. But it always brings you back into right. Where am I right now? What is actually happening? Why can't I do this standard I actually set, and I think 30 is a really easy one to actually do.
Speaker 2:I always tell guys and try and coach guys towards being able to hit 60 one-off, even if it's one time, so they know that there's an upper, but don't let your minimum go below that 30. Otherwise, there's things that are actually going wrong, that your training is probably being a little bit imbalanced. So that would be one, and I suppose we really tucked into you know, like um, the, the amount of sessions and stuff that um, the. The other aspect, then, is, whilst you've actually got training, like per se, is also making sure that you are taking time to genuinely rest, and for me, rest has to be like it's, it's um, it has to be like, it has to be intentional, and it can't just be sitting in your living room scrolling because you think, oh, I'm resting my body. You have to really think about the mental impact that your day has. You know what I mean. So, especially, I mean the guys that I work with are super stressed, so therefore, I try and remove them from their environment and get them to do something radically different and challenge them in completely different ways and recovery can be a challenge as well. So it's really being intentional about recovery and then trying to understand how that truly impacts on your body. So this is where, if you look at HRV, your rest and heart rate in the morning and all these little metrics, can start to guide you in terms of what generally works and what doesn't. So really being intentional about your rest.
Speaker 2:The other one is I'm going to do this twofold and it would be really making sure that you have a minimum target for protein intake. I think that's hugely important. But the other one and I repeatedly coach guys through this they're just not eating enough carbohydrate. And when they're lacking in energy and they're looking at drinking coffee and all these other shakes and potions, I'm like you're not having enough carbohydrate, so you're not fueling your body. You've got no energy, but you're creating the huge demand and you're trying to skip it by having a coffee or having a pre-workout drink and things like that. So they are two factors that I would generally look at.
Speaker 2:And again we go back to standards. Make that a standard, make a standard of right. I need to eat X amount of protein per day. That's my standard, and then you could go into the nuances of what's the standard breakfast I have three times per week, and then what's another two options? I have that. So you start to build this cadence in life and it's a rhythm. A lot of people come to me and they're literally like up and down, up and down. It's like a zigzag and as much as there's periods of life that are going to be like that, the idea is to get like a steady rhythm going. So there is no highs and there is no like lows, um, unless you actually orchestrate that yourself, unless you say hey, um, I'm going to test myself by doing a high rocks. What we said at the start, therefore, that's going to be the peak, and then afterwards you're going to have that element of recovery, same as then.
Speaker 2:Another aspect was like, well, I'm going to have a really big push on business For you it might be, I'm going to drive this podcast. I'm going to grow the leadership aspect, I'm going to grow this. Maybe I'm going to drive this podcast, I'm going to grow the leadership aspect, I'm going to grow this. So I understand that I'll have to reduce my sessions to this amount but still maintain that standard, so that I'm going to push. But afterwards I have to have like one day or even a week to genuinely decompress, to pull myself away from business, to have that family holiday, rather than going oh, I'm just going to do this. It's like no stop, you've had this up here. You generally now have to decompress, otherwise you're, you're, uh, you're gonna break and and uh, and I've been there plenty of times with the up and down.
Speaker 2:Um, in in line with that run is the other one, is I generally look older guys, just look at your alcohol intake and really question do you actually need that? And I'm not going to. I'm not here saying you should go T total. I'm just saying genuinely, be mindful, especially not at ex military where we've. That's part of the culture which I don't agree with, if I'm really being honest and again, like CEOs, where it's this, it's almost this socially driven concept of you need to have a glass of wine at nighttime and it's like no, you don't, because it's not.
Speaker 2:And this comes back to intentional recovery. The glass of wine isn't doing what you think it's doing. It's doing the opposite. It's a transient moment that's creating a deficit, like down the road. So all you're doing, you're moving that deficit until one day the body's going to go. I've had enough, we need to stop.
Speaker 2:Um, and that's when health problems and come like in. So I um urge people to to some degree like, choose like a period of time where I'm going to say like I'm going to do like three, if you, let's say, for example, if you have always drank right, then have like a week or a three month period where it's like I'm not going to have that at all, not just, oh, there's a party on next week. It's hey, just remove the decision from you completely and then set yourself a goal. You know, are you who you say you are Okay. Well, set yourself that goal and then remove all the decisions you have to make about I've got this party, I've got that, and then see how your body feels afterwards, along with the training and things like that. So I think that's probably more than three.
Speaker 1:That's five, but that's a gold mine. That's brilliant.
Speaker 2:No, that's fine, but that's a gold, that's a gold mine. That's brilliant, yeah, that's brilliant, no, mate. So so I think with it and again, that is their um things I see. So like I'm fit, healthy and strong, right, I'm kind of 50 um and I noticed that I stopped drinking for a while and then started again and then stopped, purely because I seen the impact on my body and if you think about it like I'm a good level of body fat, I train like I'm on a daily basis because that's literally the standard I actually set, and I just noticed even a couple of glasses when a couple of beers straight in my body. So me, I'm like, do I actually really want and need that? And a lot of the time I'm actually genuinely dehydrated and I'm just looking for that thing that quenches my thirst and then I can get on with it. So they're um, they're things.
Speaker 2:If you could do those um and really pay attention to one, how you feel and and I appreciate maybe it's going on a little bit one of the other things I would also do, right, is make a make a journal entry to some degree. Let's say you're in a really good space, right, and I would make a journal entry and say, right, I feel really good at the minute, so what's actually going on in my life? What's work like, what's family life like, what's relationships, friendships, where am I spiritually, where am I emotionally, what's my training like? And all of friendships where am I spiritually, where am I emotionally, what's my training like? And all of those things that make a list. You can tick them off and then, as soon as you start and you will always do, because it was seasonable to some degree as soon as you start moving left or right or you you feel that things are starting to slip, you can then bring up that journal entry and think, right, where am I? What's, what's gone off? Do you mean I'm working too much, which has impacted this?
Speaker 2:And this is where, essentially, when you really weave in the standards that you actually set for yourself by taking a genuine order of your life, and it's not like what's so-and-so doing in social media, because he it's like stop, like, how do you want to live your life? What's your like, what's your working hours, what are all these things, that that you do that's personal to you, like living in, like a boss and stuff that means our ancestor, but how do you actually want to do that and once you can, that's a big challenge. That really is a big challenge because it's and you know this uh, because it's really really difficult. But once you do that, um, you can. You can do anything from a business perspective because you've been somewhere unbreakable, because you really understand self. And as soon as you start to move and you will it's like right, hold on. How do I get back to my jeremy? How do I really set my compass forward again? And then, once you get that mate superpower right there yeah, love it, mate.
Speaker 1:There's there's an absolute gold mine in there. You're right, we could do a whole separate podcast on that, but mate um andy, it's been absolutely brilliant to talk to you, mate um, from a personal level. I'm incredibly grateful for the support and guidance that you've given me personally, mate. So thank you. Yeah, it means a lot to be able to have you on the show, mate, thanks for your insights, your wisdom and your vulnerability. Buddy, yeah, I love your standards. Keep doing you, bud. Where can people find a bit more about you, mate, should they be interested in reaching out?
Speaker 2:um, a twofold um. Social media, obviously the big one, I'm mac fitness. Um, I'm pretty much only active on instagram. I've tried the TikTok and that's uh, yeah, that's not me, um. And then, uh, noweeklinkscouk, that's my uh training group, um, and then within that, if you ever wanted to know, like, work me, you know one-to-one um, you can, you can contact me via there, but I mean, we can, I can give you email addresses and things like that, but they're, they're um, they're the main places awesome, andy.
Speaker 1:Thanks once again, mate, it's been a pleasure my pleasure to me.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on run.