Forging Resilience
Join us as we explore experiences and stories to help gain fresh insights into the art of resilience and the true meaning of success.
Whether you're seeking to overcome personal challenges, enhance your leadership skills, or simply navigate life's twists and turns, "Forging Resilience" offers a unique and inspiring perspective for you to apply in your own life.
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Forging Resilience
48 Andy Williams: "There was only a few days where the Taliban didn't try to overrun our compound..."
WARNING: This podcast discusses and goes into details about a suicide attempt.
What does it take to rise from a childhood of abandonment? Join us in this episode as we welcome Andy Williams, author of "Beyond the Drop Zone," who shares his extraordinary journey from being raised by his sister after parental neglect, to finding identity and camaraderie in the Parachute Regiment.
Andy opens up about the trials he faced, from intense military tours in Afghanistan to battling personal demons like cancer and renal failure. Discover how writing became his lifeline, a means to process trauma, and a legacy for his son, illustrating the transformative power of articulating one's experiences.
In the midst of life's chaos, how does one navigate the path of healing and recovery? Andy recounts the emotional and mental toll of his time in Sangin, Afghanistan, where danger and trauma were constant companions. Through reflective writing, he unravelled the complex layers of his past, understanding how shared experiences could yield different perspectives among soldiers. This episode sheds light on the silent battles faced by many veterans, emphasizing the courage required to confront one's past and the importance of seeking support when needed, along with Andy’s personal battles with PTSD and a suicide attempt that led to a turning point in his life.
Andy’s narrative offers hope and insights into managing lifestyle factors to support mental health, revealing the profound impact of writing as a tool for mental clarity. As listeners, you'll walk away with an understanding of the personal power found in resilience and the unwavering strength it takes to rebuild a life after trauma.
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And welcome to Forging Resilience, exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership. Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge, success and leadership. Today, on Forging Resilience, I'm joined by Andy Williams, the author of a book called Beyond the Drop Zone, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a bit. He's a former para, served with three para and is now a serving fireman in the Manchester area, Andy. Welcome to the show, buddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for inviting me on. It's a privilege to have a chat with you.
Speaker 1:No worries, mate Andy, give us a snapshot of your, of your story, mate, um what leads us to be sat here today listening to you bud yeah, so, um, well, I guess the the recent publication of of the book.
Speaker 2:But what? What led uh to me ultimately writing that and what really started my process of healing? It really began with somewhat of an orthodox childhood. Growing up in between North Wales and Saudi Arabia. I was abandoned by my parents at a young age. So, yeah, my father always worked overseas and never really saw him and my mum was an alcoholic and could be quite violent, so she left when I was around three years old and essentially I was raised by my what was my 16-year-old sister, a small council flat in north wales. I, um, yeah, so I had a period in the parachute regiment. I think that really gave me my a sense of identity, really, and purpose at a young age, something that I really lacked. That provided me with that and only did. I did eight years.
Speaker 2:It was a fairly busy period for the British Army and then, following my career in the military, as many, many lads did at that time, I went out and onto the closed protection circuit for a number of years and then, during that period, I went through some periods of sickness and ill health, both psychological and physical, ultimately resulting in me having a cancer diagnosis and a kidney transplant, cancer diagnosis when I was 21, and then, ultimately, renal failure nearly eight years ago now, and I decided to put all of those experiences down in writing and, to begin with, the intention was something to give to my son, who's now 18.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot of stuff in there that I wasn't aware of and I didn't really know how I could talk to him about it. It um. I decided to write the book and the. The feedback has been overwhelming, really, in terms of some of the guys I serve with reaching out and and um just just saying how the stories and experiences have resonated with their own experiences, which has been been incredible, to be honest, mate, um, yeah, and now I'm fortunate enough to to speak to people like yourself yeah, awesome, mate.
Speaker 1:There's this, as I say so many times in my podcast. There's so much there and I love the way that you yeah, I don't want to put a title on it, but almost glanced over your military career, only doing eight years, probably one of the most kinetic times of recent history for the British forces, mate. So what really inspired you? I know you said you wanted to write that book for your son, but was there a moment when you thought, right, I want to get this down on paper?
Speaker 2:Yeah, certainly so, when I came back from a very kinetic tour of Afghanistan in 2006. It was the first time that conventional forces had deployed into Helmand province and it gave me everything I ever aspired to do as a soldier. And then some. When I got back from there, there was a period where I really struggled, really struggled, with some of the experiences I had. So much happened in such a short space of time, coupled with some unresolved trauma from childhood and the feeling of abandonment. It all came to a head in a failed suicide attempt. And then sure, we'll go into some of that journey. And then years later I found myself lying on what would be my deathbed, having experienced full renal failure and on life-saving hemodialysis. And I made a promise to myself that if, if I recovered from this and I was given another chance, then, um, I would. I would get that, those stories down in writing and get the book published.
Speaker 2:And I'd already started part of the book when I was still serving in the Parachute Regiment, and so I was diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder and part of the treatment for that through the medical officer and the psychologist in the military. He asked me to write down some of the experiences that I had, just to get them on paper and try and make sense of some of those experiences and some of those feelings. And that really is what led me to my my writing journey. I still I still do it now in terms of journaling and writing down experiences. Um, you know, I made I mean I left, left school with no formal qualifications so it didn't didn't come, it didn't come naturally to me, but I fell in love with the process and I saw the, the value in um just getting things down in writing that perhaps you can't verbalize or make sense of how?
Speaker 1:how was that experience of writing about some of the the traumatic things that you'd both experienced and and seen mate before?
Speaker 2:and after during the military. Yeah, it was a. It was a very bizarre experience because when I came back, um, I I describe it as almost feeling as though I was in a dream. Nothing I felt so disconnected from the world around me. Um, and other people could, could see that in me, but I couldn't. And there was a lot of other things that came with that, as does with any form of mental health challenges, and that was not sleeping and drinking excessively, uh, really intrusive thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 2:And then what I come to realise was that the so, part of the deployment, I was deployed to an area called Sangin, where some of the most intense fighting had happened, and I was deployed there as part of a specialist machine guns unit. And just because we were so thin on the ground, my and I was deployed there as part of a specialist machine guns unit, and just because we were so thin on the ground, my team ended up spending 50 days at this location, and out of those 50 days, there was only a couple of days where the compound wasn't the Taliban didn't try to overrun it, attack it or in some way shape or form, and so I couldn't remember a lot of the experiences. I just had this overwhelming feeling of almost just impending doom and trauma. And so that's what I said to the psychologist. I said I can remember some key events, but because so much happened, it was almost as if psychologically I just couldn't, couldn't process it, I couldn't remember. It was almost as if it was my body's way of suppressing those memories as a coping mechanism. And then it was only when I began the process of writing those, those experiences down in a chronological order, what I could remember, things started to unravel, and I mean it certainly wasn't an easy process that when I first started it all those years ago, he said to me don't try and don't worry about the quality of the writing, the grammar, just write it down, don't even think about it. And then so I did that.
Speaker 2:And then, when it came to actually writing the book, I went back over those experiences, really tried to put myself back in in that moment experiences, and really tried to put myself back in in that moment. So much came out, mate, uh, from you know, from childhood, and it was, it was traumatic in itself just getting those down, and I had, you know, there'd be a week where I'd be in a really bad place again. But once I did that, I felt like this huge weight was lifted off my shoulders and I'm okay with it now. I'm completely okay with it and I think that's quite important to recognize that there is a way of healing from those sorts of experiences. And you know, don't get me wrong they still evoke certain emotions. But I'm okay talking about it and I feel as though I've moved on, finally moved on from um, from some of those things yeah, yeah, a lot of people, including myself.
Speaker 1:I can't really begin to comprehend what that must be like. What age were you when, in 2006, andy?
Speaker 2:yeah, so uh, I joined, joined the parish regiment at the age of 16, and then that deployment, I was 20. I turned 21 as I returned. It's such a long time ago now, but equally it feels like a couple of days ago. I think it's important that we acknowledge experiences like that because ultimately that's shaped me into who I am and I'm definitely in a better position to a more resilient position to deal with those sort of challenges now. So I'm completely thankful and grateful of those experiences and I do feel like I'm in a better position now. I'm a better person for it.
Speaker 1:Mate at the time. I'm curious to know how, even though you said you're not fully conscious of you know those 50 days blurred into a few key moments. But how did young lads, or how did young lads, deal with it at the time? Then, during when you're stuck there for 50 days, what was there much talking going on between you about what you'd seen and experienced?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's a, it's a really, it's a really interesting. Um, it's a really interesting narrative because we were all young men, you know 1920s, early 20s and, as you'll know, as a soldier, it's everything you joined and you hoped to do when you joined the army, and I think in that moment we probably didn't realize it. Um, you know, we just sort of focus on the, the day-to-day, day-to-day what needs to get done. Um, and I always found it fascinating how so many people can go through the same experiences but their perspective of the events are completely different. You know, you and I could witness something completely traumatic and it would. It would, um, it play out completely different in our own minds because, you know, it's so complex and it's so varied. Um, so I think it really hit home to a lot of the guys once they left the military, when they lacked that identity and that sense of purpose that the military gave them, and that certainly was the case for me anyway.
Speaker 1:You said I'm curious again to know what struggling actually looks like for people that might not understand this. I know you said you started to drink a lot and had some really intrusive thoughts, but if we've got friends that have been through certain things be it the level of trauma you have or different, or even any sort of trauma for that matter what were some of the things that you struggled with or that you could notice in in your mates that were also struggling?
Speaker 2:yeah. So, um, for me, I didn't notice it myself. I know I didn't feel right, uh, I definitely didn't acknowledge it. Anything was wrong, the along with those, uh, how I was, um, all the other aspects, such as not sleeping and drinking, obviously didn't help the situation. So I think, first and foremost, it's important to be honest with yourself and fortunately, somebody else recognized that.
Speaker 2:For me, I mean, it took, it took for me to get to the point of wanting to to end my life, for me to reach out for help, and I don't really remember at that time it wasn't, it wasn't as well, it wasn't as spoken about as much, um, post-traumatic stress disorder. So, um, for me, I, to begin with, I just felt completely numb. When I, when I returned, completely emotionally numb and as a somewhat of a disturbing coping mechanism, I used to order videos of people being executed off the internet and I would watch them in the evenings, through the night, just hoping that I would feel something emotionally, I would feel sad or disgusted, and I just felt nothing. It was. It was as if my, my ability to regulate emotions was broken. I didn't know how I was supposed to feel and I stopped sleeping. I was afraid to sleep because of the horrendous nightmares I used to have. I didn't want to be awake, so I sort of just existed in this um, this being of just being drunk and just, uh, indescribably sad, but, but, but numb, um. And I remember saying to my wife my wife at the time, I felt like I was, uh, like a ticking bomb. I felt like it was going to come to a head at some point. And at the same time as all this was going on, I had. My son had just been born, so I was trying to contend with all the feelings of becoming a father.
Speaker 2:I was diagnosed with skin cancer and at the time they didn't know how far the cancer had spread, and this was at 21. And in my very distorted thinking, I thought that the illnesses that I had was a punishment for you know from some of the experiences that I had, and that that was how my life was going to end. So I had a skin cancer diagnosis and then I started pissing blood. So I automatically thought that the cancer spread to my organs. But it turned out to be two separate things. So I had incurable kidney disease, I had skin cancer and I had all these intrusive thoughts and feelings that was happening and when I look back now it's almost like I'm thinking about somebody else. It doesn't feel like that was that was ever me.
Speaker 2:I was in a really, really bad place and fortunately I was was lucky enough to get the help that I needed. Yeah, it all came to a head one night when I was drinking with some friends over and I was play fighting with one of them in the kitchen. It was actually my sister-in-law. We were messing around and we were laughing and joking, messing around and we were laughing and joking and she threw a jab at me and it caught me on the side of my eye and the pain really stung, it really hurt and it was the first time I'd felt anything in months. And then that was almost, that was almost like the trigger and I just had a surge of emotions come up from me and I just started crying uncontrollably. I started to beat myself up, just punching myself in the face, attacking myself, and then my brother-in-law threw his arms around me to stop me from attacking myself and I happened to fall next to where the knife block was in the kitchen. I drew, I drew the large kitchen knife and I started slicing at my wrists in front of everybody in the kitchen. I distinctly remember them, my wife saying we're going to get you the help, you the need, you're going to get you the help that you need. And I just said you can't help me, you can't me, I didn't see a way out.
Speaker 2:Uh, and then, fortunately, because I was still serving the um, I was referred to the you know, to the medical officer, and that really started the, the, you know, the healing process. But in doing that, a lot of the stuff from the childhood came out. I couldn't really. I found it hard to understand why my parents didn't want me, and it was pretty tough for my sister and I, because she's still a kid herself. So, and then I lost the one thing that meant everything to me and that was the identity of being in the Parachute Regiment, and I almost had to start again. But I, you know, by no means would ever want to view myself as a victim, because I was lucky enough to come back from there in the first, from the third, in the first place, which a lot, of, a lot, a lot of other young lads didn't have that chance. So I've given another chance, um, so the only thing I can do is to learn from that and try and help other lads that you know that maybe get, maybe experienced something similar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really interesting, man. You're not the first person on this podcast to talk about these sorts of things, but I still think it's really important just to take a moment, just to acknowledge you and the courage it takes to both revisit that story, talk about it and also to front those traumas, demons, shadows, call them what you want, mate. So thank you for that. I know that it means a lot to me and I know it will mean a lot to other people as well, mate.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, thank you, yeah thank you for giving me the platform to talk about it. No worries, mate, to uh to talk about it, no worries, mate, but I almost so. Um, I don't think, obviously there are going to be other traumas in life. It's inevitable. Um, that doesn't have to be necessarily from the military background. Um, you know, in any walk of life people have to build those coping mechanisms to deal with those traumas.
Speaker 2:And the way that I approach it now, I almost use the analogy of being in the fire service. So there are certain things that we have to do. We have to do if we're mobilizing to an incident. So the first thing that I think about is, in order for me to deal with anything to the best of my ability, I have to give myself the best chance. So, just in, you know, in the fire service we do a whole, um whole array of training and preparedness for dealing with a wide variety of incidents. In order for me to give myself the best chance, I have to exercise regularly, prioritize sleep, limit alcohol. I have to practice some form of self-care, because I don't get it right all the time. I am by no means, um, you know the finished product. I still have bad days, but but I know that if I'm not training, if I'm putting the wrong foods in my body, I'm not giving myself a chance mentally to to cope with those.
Speaker 2:The the second thing is for any incident that we go to, we have a predetermined attendance, or PDA, depending what that is whether it's a drowning, a house fire, a car crash there are certain fire appliances and specialist appliances that respond to that. So what I mean by that is that we have a whole array of tools for dealing with things. So some days I need to just go in the gym and absolutely beast myself for an hour and I'll feel better for it. Other days I might need to do some journaling or go on a long walk on my own with the dog. It's not a case of one size fits all, it's a, it's a toolbox. Um.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing is any incident I go to, I can't. I can't as an officer, I can't resolve that by myself. I need the right people around me with the right training, and that will. That will change, um, depending on the incident. Isolation, as we know, is an absolute killer, and it's only recently I've reconnected with some of the guys I served with 20 years ago and I think having a positive support network around you is what you need. And sometimes I'll vent to my missus, other times I'll sit and have a beer with an old friend and that's what I need for that moment.
Speaker 2:And then the last thing is at the end of any incident we have a debrief, a bit of a SWOT analysis of what went well. What would we change in the future? And I think that's also important. You know, what would we change in the future? And I think that's also important. So I do allow myself time to just check in with myself practice, breath work, which I'm quite, which I'm a fan of, journaling or whatever that may be. And each technique, each tool is completely different for each person. You know it depends on what works for you, but I do think that's helped me quite significantly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you beat me to it there, mate, asking about some of the strategies you use. So nice one, mate. Just going back slightly, I feel compelled to ask yeah, around the suicide stuff, mate, that something that I spoke to a guy on about was the shame that he sensed around not being able to cope, and I'm just curious is that something that you've experienced through this whole episode and your own struggle with mental health there? Andy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I know I thought about it a lot and I know suicide is the most selfish thing you could do for your loved ones, and you know I respond to suicides now in the job I do now. But what's interesting is when you're in that mindset you just't think beyond, you don't think that way. It's kind of a catch-22, because it's the most selfish thing you can do. But when you're in that mindset you're not, you're not bothered. And I thought about it, I thought about for a long time whether, whether I wanted to be here at all, because I thought all I ever wanted to do was was be in the parachute regiment. I couldn't do that anymore. I felt like, uh, I felt like a bit of a failure in the.
Speaker 2:Some of the friends of mine went back and did multiple tours, you know, of Afghanistan. But I suppose that isn't really the point. The point is, um, you know it's different. Mental health doesn't discriminate. The psychologist once used an analogy of a pint glass filling up, and I know it's a very common analogy of all your traumas from the past, specifically childhood traumas. It comes to a point where that glass is going to overflow and that might happen sooner for other people, for some people than others.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I definitely felt shame and I felt like a bit of a failure and I always had this, um, before I joined, before I joined the army, because of what happened with my parents, I always wanted to, to prove to people around me that I was worthy of, of being loved, that, you know, I was going to make something of myself and want to set my mindset on that. Everything I did, everything I did, I completely, I applied myself 100% and I did it to the best of my ability and I almost was just always seeking excellence in everything, um, which again comes with it, comes at a cost, and then so, to go through all of that and then, um, you know, experience what I experienced. Yeah, I did, I felt shamed and I felt like a failure.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, cheers for that, mate, and and yeah, something that struck me the weight of it, because, even though that's finished and you dealt with it that's that's what I picked up on from from speaking to other people as well, and it's quite an important thing. It doesn't just disappear overnight, those sorts of things, mate. But I'm again going back slightly, but the the biggest lessons that you learned from both writing the book and through your own healing process that are still relevant for you today, mate, if you might share one or two of those, the biggest like lessons, now that you've got a different perspective, uh, on what's happened and you've allowed and processed and released a lot of that trauma yeah, the the biggest lessons that I've learned from from writing the book, um, is that, uh, you, you have to prioritize self-care.
Speaker 2:Um, you have to prioritize self-care because there there was a certain I'm very glad that the narrative around surrounding mental health is shifting and I think more and more people are talking openly about that, and I think that's a really good thing, and it shouldn't be viewed as a weakness, as it perhaps was in um certain lines of work, like you know lines of work back back in a you know platoon full of alpha males. It should be viewed as a strength, and so I allow myself that space to feel that way now, and probably that's what I got from it. The most is that I have to prioritize self-care.
Speaker 2:None of us are indestructible. We're all human, and if I could be a more compassionate, empathetic, well-rounded person, then that that's going to make me a better person, for that. Um, yeah, that's probably the biggest lesson that I've learned, and I'll continue to write and journal. Um, I think it's uh. For me personally, I think it's an incredible tool for helping just get rid of some of that mental clutter that we all experience and just allowing yourself time to just focus on getting those thoughts on paper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and for me, writing it's almost like putting distance, isn't it? It looks or sounds a certain way in our head and, like you said, it can be quite heavy, and when we put it onto paper it can seem quite different or there's separation, or you can literally close the book. Come back to, when you're ready, some of the benefits I have find of writing, which you've alluded to there in terms of your identity. Then what? What is it now that you do to your identity? Then what, what is it now that you do to? Yeah, what have you done to find yourself and your sense of identity? Now, then, andy, after you lost that through, leaving the army, mate?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I was. I was very fortunate that after I left uh, after I left the military, I I had a period of healing. As I said, I was given the diagnosis of an incurable kidney disease. So I knew that eventually that was going to catch up with me and they said to me that it may take six months, it may take 20 years, so, and I always knew that was going on in the background. But I was very fortunate that I had quite a successful career in the private security industry after I left the military and I felt like that was pretty much a continuation of some of the work that we were doing in the military. I got to travel to some amazing places around the world.
Speaker 2:It was, you know, I was doing a job that I absolutely loved, and the only thing, the only reason I stopped doing that I absolutely loved, and the only thing, the only reason I stopped doing that line of work, is when my, my kidneys failed, um, and I had to sort of reassess what I wanted in from life. So, um, but ultimately I, um, I was so lucky to recover. So, in a strange turn of events, my sister, who dedicated, she gave up her childhood, really to raise me as one of her own from the age of 16. And then, all these years later, she donated me a kidney and saved my life. So I had eight months on hemodialysis and she gave me a kidney and I felt like I had another chance at life and I didn't didn't want to waste it and I was ready to put put all that stuff behind me. I think it was very easy for us to fall into the mindset of victimhood, and it's just not healthy for anybody. I feel like it's important to acknowledge the past and learn from it, and if you can use those experiences to help others, then that's amazing. And so it was when I was after my transplant that I was determined to get this book published, whether it was successful or not, even if I just gave it to my son.
Speaker 2:And my wife works for the fire service and I knew I wasn't going to go back to working on the closed protection circuit. And she sort of said, um, flippantly, would you, won't you consider a career in the fire service? And I sort of dismissed it and said that it was my understanding. It was always really difficult to get in and they they they're very rare that they recruit.
Speaker 2:And this was, uh what nearly seven years ago now, and I'm very fortunate in that I found something that, um, it gives me, it ticks all the boxes for me. So you know, it's a bit practical still, um, still lots of challenges that come with it. Still, you still get that element of excitement, um, and I think, especially for people with the military background, it's important. It's important for us to feel like we're doing something meaningful, have a sense of purpose and a service and that might be helping other people. It might be in the public sector, but I think it's definitely. It means a lot to me anyway to feel as though I'm doing something that's meaningful and something that I'm enjoying. I'm very, very lucky in that respect.
Speaker 1:Talking about trying to prove yourself worth mate, and obviously that's come from such an ingrained pattern from a young age. Do you still catch yourself falling into that and what do you do just to catch it or even check it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I certainly, in the past, have fallen victim to being too hard on myself and you know, everything has to be perfect. You don't allow any room, room for failure. So I think, as if, as if as I've matured and from those experiences, I'm a bit more lenient on myself, and you know, if I have a bad day or I have a setback, and it and it and it still happens. It's completely normal, you know, in my view, but what's important is that I can acknowledge it, um, I can reflect on it and I can, uh, improve from it. You know, moving, moving forward, so that that that helps a lot, um, along with all of the other things that we spoke about.
Speaker 2:So, you know, fitness is a big, big part of my life. If I go to two or three days without doing some form of exercise, I feel it, I feel I don't feel right, you know, I don't feel myself, so that's really important. But, um, or you know, a couple of days drinking, um, I know that I need to stop checking with myself, recess, and then, um, I know I need to do, need to stop checking with myself, recess. And then I know what I need to do to move forward, to feel, to better myself again.
Speaker 1:What advice would you give to people that are listening or struggling, regardless of what they've seen or what their background is?
Speaker 2:mate in terms of getting help or taking that first step seen or what their background is, mate in terms of getting help or may taking that first step. Yeah, I, I know so. I know the cliche of you know speaking to somebody, but I think, first and foremost, you have to be honest with yourself. You have to be honest because life is so short. There just isn't time to be punishing yourself for things that happened in the past. That's what I've learned, certainly, just time spent thinking how I should have reacted differently in certain situations or going over certain events. It's time wasted. So acknowledge it. Acknowledge it, but you have to remind yourself that that is in the past. Now the only thing that really matters is what you're doing right now. So acknowledge it, and then you can't deal with anything in isolation.
Speaker 2:It's important to speak to somebody, and that varies from person to person, person. So, personally, I initially I struggled with talking to somebody who'd not had a similar experience to me, because I just felt that, well, how can you, how can you empathize with how I'm feeling if you've not been there yourself? But sometimes that might be exactly what you need to speak to a complete stranger who is completely detached from the situation and can give you a different perspective on it. So the first thing was certainly to acknowledge it, speak to somebody it could be a friend, a relative, whoever that may be and then, before you, when you do all those things, you have to give yourself the best chance. And the only way you're going to do that is by your lifestyle factors, because it soon spirals. I mean, I would drink to kind of just feel more numb and just to forget things, but it didn't take too long until I was I relied on on alcohol. You know, still still drink now, but I am in control. It's not a, it's a different reason. You know this is coming from a good place. So your lifestyle factors. If you are not, if you're not sleeping properly, if you're not exercising, if you're not eating properly, you're not giving yourself the best chance to deal with those traumas.
Speaker 2:Moving forward, um, and there's a whole host of support out there now, from mindfulness apps. You know, just getting out in nature I'm a big believer that getting out and getting outside sunlight on your face, just spending some time in the outdoors, I think it is extraordinary what it can do for your mindset. Um, and you know, if you have, if you have left the military, there is life beyond the military. That doesn't. I always felt like it doesn't define me as a person. It was a big part of my life. But, um, you know, there's, there's. There's more things to life. There's always more challenges to overcome. Even doing small challenges that you know, the reward in that is extraordinary yeah, yeah, love it, mate, brilliant.
Speaker 1:Um, as we start to wrap up andy, is there anything that you feel that you want to say that we've not talked about? That's important for you, or to mention?
Speaker 2:um, I, uh, well, first of all, yeah, I'm very grateful for to be given the platform like this to talk about people, uh, to to talk to people. Um, I can't overestimate the importance of talking to somebody. If that's how you're feeling, uh, you know, there's always somebody else that's that's gone through a similar journey as you. So you're not, you're not alone, um, and then I just you know if it's important to seek help, if, if you need that, uh, I, um, it's took a while, but I've definitely, you know, come to terms with some some of the stuff from childhood. Now, um, and I see it as an advantage. You know there's an advantage. Now I'm a better person for it. So, um, no, I think I I can't think of anything else. I mean that, uh, that, um, yeah, that we've, we've missed love it, mate.
Speaker 1:Where might people get in touch with you if they're interested in reaching out or buying a copy of your book, mate?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, yeah, I'm on social media, um, instagram, mostly beyond the drop zone. There's a website that's going to be going live very soon, along with a clothing line. Um, there's uh, I'm planning to put some more resources on there that people can go to, but I I'm, you know, I'm interested in interacting with anybody, especially around resilient mindset, leadership and performance. Those sort of things I find it fascinating. Um, so, yeah, yeah, beyond, beyond the drop zone brilliant mate.
Speaker 1:I'll put that in the in the show notes. But listen, andy, mate, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you here today. Thanks so much once again for the courage to share your story, mate, and I'm sure that people listening will find that valuable, insightful and courageous. So, yeah, thank you for that, mate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cheers, aaron. Yeah, thanks again for inviting me on Nice one pal.