Forging Resilience
Join us as we explore experiences and stories to help gain fresh insights into the art of resilience and the true meaning of success.
Whether you're seeking to overcome personal challenges, enhance your leadership skills, or simply navigate life's twists and turns, "Forging Resilience" offers a unique and inspiring perspective for you to apply in your own life.
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Forging Resilience
49 Tom Satterly: "You weren't trained on emotions or relationships, we can help you with that"
Tom Satterly, a retired US Army veteran with a notable tenure in special operations, shares his compelling experiences. From being on the ground during Battle of Mogadishu, to playing a pivotal role in the capture of Saddam Hussein, Tom's military career was filled with high stakes and intensity.
However, the transition to civilian life brought its own set of challenges. We promise you'll gain a deeper understanding of this transition, as Tom candidly discusses the personal struggles and victories along the way, and how they led to the founding of the All Secure Foundation, a nonprofit committed to aiding veterans and their families.
Tom reflects on the essence of self-discovery after leaving the military, we touch on the significance of managing emotions, overcoming ego, and embracing a new sense of self.
The conversation underscores the importance of family and home as stabilizing forces and the critical need for effective communication in strengthening these relationships.
Mental health, often shrouded in stigma, especially within military circles, takes center stage in our conversation. We explore the barriers veterans face in seeking help, including fears of losing security clearance or facing judgment from peers. Tom proposes a shift in perspective, viewing mental health support as "training" rather than a fix for brokenness.
From revealing the power of storytelling to shedding light on continuous growth, our dialogue with Tom offers a beacon of hope and an invitation to participate in building a supportive community.
Tom's account of the battle of Mogadishu on the Sean Ryan Show.
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Welcome to Forging Resilience, exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership. Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge, success and leadership. Today, on Forging Resilience, we're joined by Tom Satterley. Tom joins us from over the pond in the States. He spent 25 years in the US Army, most of which was in special operations. He participated in some of the most significant military operations in recent history. He's written a book, all Secure, which is his account of his military career, especially his time on operations and the personal toll that it took on him. He's founder or co-founder of All Secure Foundation, which now helps veterans and their families deal with the challenges of life after service. So, tom, welcome to the show, mate. Thanks, aaron, I appreciate you having me on. No worries, mate, I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the first podcast I ever did was on yours, all Secure Foundation back in summer two years ago.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's pretty crazy Some time ago, some time ago. So, Tom, give us a rundown of what's relevant and how you like to introduce yourself and a quick spin through your story for our listeners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you covered it. Like I was in the army for 25 years. 20 of that was special operations, 20 or 21 of a total was special operations. Um, you know, like I started out to come in for four years for college money and it just kind of kept rolling and rolling of interesting things that kept popping up and I I found myself, luckily in the in the midst of greater men who wanted to had a different story than the conventional forces and I kind of climbed my way up without a, without a path. Really. I just kept following the better. Whatever was better. I'd go find it if I could. Um, and then I, you know, I settled at the unit for 20 years there and it was.
Speaker 2:I think my story takes you from black hog down all the way through capture saddam hussein, all the way through, you know, the next global war on terror that we just wrapped up finally, but and then other places around the world. And I think the most important thing out of all that is everybody's got a war story, everybody's got some cool shit they did or that they think they did. But I think the biggest part of that is understanding how to get past that, get through that and that's where. That's where my struggles. I think the greatest thing I want people to know about me is that I'm taking what I went through and what I learned and trying to apply it for other people who won't hopefully go through that or who have gone through that and can get out of it quicker.
Speaker 2:Right With things that I've gone through, things that me and Jen have gone through, and logged in and labeled and pass it out to anybody who will listen to hey, here's what worked for me, here's what else worked for me, here's what else worked for me. Just keep documenting it, passing out and the stories that we've gotten about people we've helped um, are amazing. You know, you save my life. It's like no, I didn't save your life. Nobody can save your life. You can by taking the information someone provides you and doing something with it. But you know, and same with saving my marriage, you, it's like no, we just made you realize what you were doing.
Speaker 2:We gave you the tools to stop doing that you know and you actually did the work and that's where you are. So that's what we continue to do today is help individuals get past what they're suffering from. You know, I'm not just going to say post-traumatic stress, there's all kinds of things people suffer from. And then relationship help. Most people, you know I think shared with jen over, there's like 92 want help at home to be a better father or husband. So that's kind of where we dove into with our foundation.
Speaker 2:But you know, with every war story in the middle, in the end you're, you're, I'm messed up, I'm screwed, I don't know how to integrate back into the civilian world, or I don't know how to be happy or kind at home and uh, and that's what we want to help people with the other side of it, the thing that we all suffer from. A lot of people didn't go to war. A lot of people have post-traumatic stress from other things, but on this side of it we all suffer similarly the same. So this is what we kind of looked at to tackle now yeah, there's a lot to go into to there.
Speaker 1:Babe, I'm really curious to hear about what your transition was like from leaving such a close-knit, tight organization that went through so much and so much brotherhood and obviously all the other costs that went with that, and then the transition into to civilian life. What was, what was that like for you?
Speaker 2:mate, hell on earth it was. You know, I was excited. You know I reenlisted at 19 years for another six and I did it for money. As soon as I put my hand down, when I was done, I regretted it. It was one of those. What did I just do for another six years to take me to 25? When I was done, I was tired, I was ready to get out. Done, I was tired, I was ready to get out.
Speaker 2:So the last six years of my career I was broken. I'm struggling to to not keep jobs but to do it well enough, as I thought I was doing it well enough. Um, you know, and it was, it was um. You start to fall off of that cliff you've climbed, you know, and you're on top of the hill and someone pushes you off the new guys climbing up, you know, there's always somebody climbing that mountain and when you get to the top it's busy. You got to push somebody off to make room for yourself and I think I got that shove and it was. Uh.
Speaker 2:It's when you start to kind of tear yourself down like I did all this. But so what, you know, it's over. What am I going to do now? I kind of rolled a little further, doing contract work in jordan, um, working in amman, jordan King Abdullah Special Operations Training Center, for like a year and a half until that money dried up, and it was that's when my transition started to tank. You know, over in Jordan I'm making a lot of money, I'm hanging out with the same kind of guys, you know. It's just no spouses around. Again it's like oh, I'm back in the army and making more money.
Speaker 2:So I thought I'm happy. But that money didn't do anything for me, except you know, my ex-wife took it. It was one of those. There I am again gone more than I was when I was well, almost about the same amount as I was when I was in. When I came back to the States I tanked I had nothing to do. I'm retired.
Speaker 2:I don't have to do anything, but I had nothing to do at that age and that's not a retirement age. That's one of those. You know you. You get shoved off the cliff. You're looking at the top. You see what's going on. You're trying to stay relevant. You're looking up, yelling and waving at people like what are you doing up?
Speaker 1:there. What's going on?
Speaker 2:And then you know they share that with you a little bit, and then it moves into the newer guys and that you don't get to hear what's going on anymore. Now you're just a dude on the outside wondering what's what, and you start having those feelings of of worthlessness. You know, self-worth is low. Um, I don't. You don't love yourself anymore, so it's hard to love anyone else. Uh, so you turn aggressive and angry most of the time and then I'm trying to also make my home life like a military life. You know, keep everything in order, keep everything the way it should be. Why? Because we might die, you know, and all those things that I didn't understand. I said nobody wanted to be around me, I didn't want to be around myself. And that's when I just started, you know, contemplating suicide and contemplating how can I get out of this? And telling myself I've done the most, the best I'll ever do. What? What more is there? I'm just a burden to society now and, uh, many times I almost took my own life and I tried. Or you, you?
Speaker 2:know, I say try and to me I'm like I failed. It's a weird thing to say, but you know, the trying I think is a, is a is a call for help really. Um, did I think I would do it at the time. Sure, I mean, I look back now what. I it's terrifying to even consider what you're going to do.
Speaker 2:And when I think about those times it it almost did. You know, I almost break down thinking about, because I'm I'm fearful of thinking about it, because how close I got and I got to think. You know, I actually heard something the other day that made me really think. Um, I don't know if you're religious or whoever's listening that might be religious, and it's like you know, your life can't be at rock bottom, you know. I mean, or you can't be living the best life or your worst life, because you know what's next either hell or heaven. So what life are you living? Yeah, one's going to get better, one's going to get worse. So it's a way to look at it and I started looking at things a little differently, just one little bite of a time of something I could tackle, versus when I'm in the organization I'll tackle everything I want. So I've got friends to help me. It'll get done in no time. I ended up realizing it's going to take me.
Speaker 2:What have I been at? 10 years, 11 years of retirement now, still working, still working on it. Um, trying to get a handle on emotions, um, anger a lot better now, you know. It used to be moments of happiness, and in between then it was hours, then it turned to days and I went to weeks, and now we're at many, many, many months before maybe I'll have some sort of issue that I just mentally can't handle and I figure out how now to get away from that.
Speaker 2:Walk away, you know, we have the tools that I've learned over those years, but it was a train wreck until I let go of my ego, until I let go of um. Looking in the rearview mirror of all the things I did and all those impressive things, look what I did. And it's like who cares what you did? No one gives a shit what you did, right, unless they can use it for themselves. Other than that, they really don't care. And so I started realizing that I got to kill that ego. I got to get rid of who I was. I got to become who I am now.
Speaker 2:And I had to figure out who that was. And that's the struggle letting go of the badass commando that you thought and want to be. And now you know I'm 50, I don't know seven, and I'm like I'm a badass command on my head, but when I go mow the yard I'm like my arms are still you know. Oh, I mow the yard. So it's the reality sets in of you're not that guy.
Speaker 2:There's younger kids doing that now, you know, and it doesn't mean you're no longer worth what you were worth, but that's not what your value is now. Your value is what you can do now.
Speaker 1:So I did turn that into helping other people with the same problem that I had and I guess I I've seen it with my line of work as well is that so many of us, or so many people as well, and I'm sensing as you, is it you? We wrap our identity around what we do or what we've done, and when we separate it from that, that it can be quite, yeah, a jolt yeah, when you, when you wake up and realize you're not with it, you're not that guy you think you are anymore.
Speaker 2:You're the guy that you are and you better, you better fix it and work on it and and become who you want to be again. Um, you know, it's not the last. It's not the last high school touchdown pass. You know I don't want to peak at the unit. I want to peak again and that's why, um, well, jen started the organization she brought me in. It's like my next goal is to peak again by helping more people than I really helped when I was in yeah you know, and it's helping my own kind of people.
Speaker 2:It's helping the people than I really helped when I was in. It's helping my own kind of people. It's helping the people that did the same job that I've done in special operations, knowing how hard that is, knowing how hard it is to keep a spouse and a family while doing the work. They expect you to do. That we want to give back now on this side of it and help the people that are getting out, or hopefully the ones that are still in come, before they get out or whenever they need it. We'll take any. You know, anytime somebody needs some help, but to start that path, so we always try to get them to start as soon as possible.
Speaker 2:But you know, when you're in the mix, you're with the boys. Yeah, you're not listening to home. You know that's, that's stupid stuff. Home is in the way and so it's um. The challenge is to get people to realize the home is the thing. Home is the only thing that will be there forever if you maintain it. Your job will never be there forever, even if you maintain it. They're going to move on, but your home will always be there if you put your focus at home. So that's what we're trying to redirect a lot of focus.
Speaker 1:You said something which spiked my interest and I think is a really important thing to highlight, is the fact that it is a journey. Is the fact that it is a journey, it's not a destination, when, especially if we're dealing with something, if we're learning about ourselves and there's work to do, for me, just because the work's done, tick box doesn't make me a better person and therefore everything's fine. And just as we alluded to before we came on, how was Christmas and the new year? It was all of it, yeah, but that's the point, isn't it? It's not, it doesn't solve everything. It's about having the tools and how, how we respond and how quick we can get to catch those, those, those emotional states, before they, they, they start to steamroll things that we love, like the people at home. Um, what are a couple of the tools that you use then, tom, recently that have helped you, just like ground yourself, that we may or may not heard of or be common, oh, you've heard of this one.
Speaker 2:I've learned to shut my mouth shut up um, I screw that up every now and then I, but my head is always teach, teach, teach, teach, better, better, better. How can I make it better? How can I teach? And I expect everyone else to want to be better. I expect the family to want to learn from me, and they want to. Oh, tom's got a great idea, but really all they hear is blah, blah, blah, blah. Shut up, tom, right.
Speaker 2:And so I've learned to shut up. Um, because I ruined more things when I talk too much, right, and when I try to interject myself everywhere because I want to make it better, I want to help you. Nobody wants that help. Then you're just wasting your time and then the argument starts. So I've learned to shut up and that's helped me mostly. I mean, that was my thing, um, saying things too fast, um, and then regretting what I said because it was out of emotion or just trying to teach somebody how wrong they were. And I have a better way. So once I got past shutting my mouth, things would develop slowly in front of me and then I could choose what path I needed to take. In combat, that happens faster, but it's still the same process. Now it's not combat. No one's going to die. I can slow down and I can back off of that. Jump in now, fix it. And things don't need fixed when they bring it up most of the time.
Speaker 2:So shutting my mouth is one, and two is is, like you alluded to earlier, knowing when that's coming, knowing when I'm starting to feel it in my chest or I'm feeling in my stomach I'm flushing and my body's telling me to attack. You know and oh, by the the way, it's my 18 year old stepdaughter who just doesn't want to clean a room. I'm getting flushed. I'm like, how dare you? Right, and I've learned to turn, leave, not say anything. It's not worth it, you know. So I'll lay there and I'll tell myself yeah, well, you should clean. You know, I'll sit there and have this argument with myself in my head, like I'm having it with her, and she's arguing back and I'm doing this whole thing.
Speaker 2:I'm preparing for how it's going to go like, and so when I enter into these conversations, I'm ready for it to go like that, and so I'm so ready to to turn it up a notch and expecting someone to deny what I'm saying or refute it, and so I've learned to to walk away when I feel it. I've learned to catch it before it happens um times, because once it happens that's a whole nother tool, right Walking away and turning fast or just shutting down and leaving, but catching it before that happens, and even catching it before I say something. And and the trick to that is I get so excited, like when my wife's driving and I want to say something and I don't, and she's driving some more and I'm like, oh, I don't say anything, I don't correct her driving. And then, like 30 minutes ago, I'm like I wanted to say something like 10 times to you and I didn't. So I'm pretty proud of myself and I just wanted to share it with you, teaching her how to drive. You know, you might want to get over in the right lane right now, you know. Or look out, someone's going to cut you off and just shut up and let it unfold and realize, well, I didn't die and it worked out and it doesn't have to be my plan. That's that's.
Speaker 2:That's another thing that I've learned is shut up and then learn when it's welling up and then sharing those lessons less and less, like I've learned. I've learned not to tell you your dress is ugly, you know, it's just those things you don't say out loud. So I think that always lines up with shut up. So that's that's why not speaking so much was my number one thing. Um, the corrections, the anger, the frustration, that the words that I can't take back, that I spoke emotionally, that was was my number one issue that when I solved it, everything else started settling down and it wasn't as dramatic for me. So I didn't have to remove myself when I welled up as much because I wasn't welling up as much. So I thought, wow, this one, this one thing, triggered five others to settle down.
Speaker 2:And that kind of led into when we help people, like okay, what's your number one issue that you have? What's tackling your life? What well, I drink too much. Okay, let's tackle that right now. All the other stuff, great. But I think if we stop drinking as much or whatever it is you you need to stop doing, then this will settle down as well. You might not need as much help over here if you stop drinking, you know. And then, once you deal with that, what's your next problem? Well, my wife is sick of my shit. You know, this has been years and years and years. Okay, we've got to work on building a relationship. But identifying those things is key.
Speaker 1:And once you have those tools, identify those, those things, and you get the tools to stop doing those things, man, your world starts to change fast tom, for those that don't have or have had those sorts of struggles or challenges, irregardless of the, the trauma they've seen or the conflict they may or may not have not seen what, what does what does it? What is it like to be challenged, um, and and to struggle? What might that look like for somebody on the outside, seeing a friend or a loved one, um, and, and maybe give us an indication what it is like for you, mate, at different, at different times, like signs and symptoms of, yeah, for example, what is like in tom's shoes when you really were struggling, what we might have seen?
Speaker 2:yeah, you would have seen I would have been isolating. I isolated, um, I removed myself from parties, crowds, people. I didn't want to do that, you know. I started just hanging out with my spouse, you know, and she would. She would watch me and keep eye on me, but I would isolate. I would create stories in my head of how people don't like me and how the things I'm doing are wrong and that you know they're judging me for it. So they must not like me. So I would stay away even more, even though I'm the one telling that whole story. I drank a lot, and I drank a lot as soon as I could start drinking in the day. You know, mentally when, I felt better.
Speaker 2:You know, at one point it was Bailey's and coffee in the morning, right, and then go to work and then waiting till three or four or five whenever that first hour was I could get another drink and start drinking with all my bros, and that adds another level of how fast you can tank um. And then it's just the miserableness of sitting there and myself knowing what I'm doing and knowing that I used to have the skill to stop and do better and be better, but I I'm not. Am I choosing to do it, or am I lazy, or you know? And then then it's just put yourself down, kind of, then it's just trash who you are, and then you're listening to yourself. So you start to feel worse, even though you're the only one telling yourself that, and it's just a downhill slide to to a land of excuses for everything I should have done. There's an excuse for it. You know, or drinking.
Speaker 2:Well, I need to drink because, or you know, I can stop when I want, I just want to. I mean, there's every excuse on the planet to keep me on the easy path, the easy path of making those wrong decisions. It's hard to stand up and fix yourself. It's hard to get up on. You know, I'll get up tomorrow and work out. I'll get up tomorrow and work out, right. When you get up that morning and again you don't work out, you, you just you hate yourself, right, and then you tell yourself it'll be the next day. It's just the struggle of realizing you used to get up every day and do those things and now it's hard just to get out of bed. It just tears you down.
Speaker 2:No one else was tearing me down. No one else told me how horrible I was, you know, unless I behave badly. But all of that was internal to myself and people would. It would be hidden unless you knew me. And even if you knew me, you know a lot of spouses miss it. So I tell people not to look for signs and symptoms and try to label it as what changes have happened in their lives. Were they normally outgoing and now they're not? Did they normally not drink and now they are a lot. What are the changes in life and what could that mean? And then the behavior of aggression any aggression, um, verbal or physical, and it starts elevating. But I mean, that's what you would. I would look for in people is the massive changes and ask.
Speaker 2:Ask different questions because you can't ask somebody how you doing, right, what are you?
Speaker 2:you going to say, good, hey, what's going on? Oh, nothing. It's like talking to kids. If you want better answers, you've got to ask better questions. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being a green and 1 being a red and yellow being a 5, where are you at Red, green or yellow? Oh, I'm a yellowish. Okay, what can I do to get you to agree? I didn't ask you what's wrong with me. I don't care, right, you don't have to tell me, but you're not feeling that good today. Okay, what can I do to help you get a little bit better than that Kind of one of those things versus hey, how's it going? Fine, I mean, that's all you're going to get from people because they don't really think you want to.
Speaker 1:Mates that I still stay in touch with that have served and still some of them are still serving, so it's a great reminder that I'm gonna rack my brains after this. That's why I love doing this podcast, mate. I learn things for me that I can apply for myself as well. Tom, I'm assuming that there would have been stigma around talking about the certain feelings, yeah, and stress and PTSD outside, let alone inside. Would that be a correct assumption?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's horrible, it's. You know, you tell yourself the story. If I say anything's wrong with me or if I admit they're going to remove me for my security clearance, you're going to not trust me to do the job. My friends won't trust me. Everybody thinks that, every single individual thinks that in those organizations, probably everywhere in the world. But um well, I'm sorry, what was that?
Speaker 1:that's all right. Mate the stigma around speaking out about having challenges both, yeah, now and before yeah, the stigma while you're in is definitely.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to bring it up, somebody will think that they're going to remove me from my job or they won't trust me. But even the stigma when you get out, the stigma, admitting it is because you're still mentally in, you're still mentally on that team, you're still mentally one of the boys. The further I got away, the easier it was to get. Screw the stigma. I have issues and I need to work on my family. Um, but even even to this day, you know I'm in groups, group chats, guys. You know, on signal from that unit veteran, you know, member chat, and I don't really participate other than watch every now and then and it's just you can see the people that need help. They're just negative, everything's negative. They won't compliment each other.
Speaker 2:You know we built this channel so guys can get help if they want to. But every time I post something about getting help and shit, it's like crickets or a smart ass comment, you know. Or it goes right to hey, anybody buy a gun or hey, you know, so-and-so's an asshole. You see this post I'm like man, that's down the wrong direction, right? So even in this veteran unit member chat, you can't go in there and ask the direct questions and get the help, because nobody really wants to talk about it much, nobody wants to bring it up, they just kind of breeze right over it. But that's an ego again. Right, it takes you right back to the ego of I don't need help, I don't need help.
Speaker 2:I'm a badass. So we actually changed that in our organization. We don't help people. We train people, right? You didn't get help to shoot your weapon or to do close quarters battle or to learn anything you learned in the military or any job. You didn't get help to do that. You were trained to do that. So when you get out, guys are like I don't know what to do and blah, blah, blah. Of course you don't. You weren't trained on emotions. You weren't trained on relationships. We can do that. We'll train you. Our coaches will train you on how to recognize.
Speaker 2:Here's some tools to use, by the way, when you do recognize it, and how to apply them and when to apply them. And, by the way, let me talk to your spouse as well. You'll understand each other. You're like oh my God, now I'm trained up on this shit. I'm working with my battle. Buddy, she's trained up on this shit. I think we have a better chance of winning this battle. Instead of tackling each other all day long, you're yelling, yelling, yelling about the same shit. You love each other, you want a better relationship, but you're yelling about it. Here's some tools to put you on the same team and fight the problem. So it's not help. It's training on something they've never had training before and I think people like that more. It's kind of similar.
Speaker 2:We took out the d from post-traumatic stress disorder because nobody I know wants to have a disorder remitted. So it's just post-traumatic stress. It's not a disorder, unless you choose to leave it that way forever. Right, so you can fix it. And we remove the invisible wounds of war because you can scan your brain and see exactly what's wrong with you and you can fix the shit. Right, so it's it's not invisible anymore. It's like a broken bone. You, you get time off for a broken bone, but, man, if you feel bad, no one lets you off. Something's broken here. Something's broken in your leg.
Speaker 2:You can be an alcoholic and get booted out for being an alcoholic. When you ask for help, versus wouldn't you keep this guy. He's already trained. He just became an alcoholic because everybody drinks. Help him a little bit. It saves you money for training. It saves little bit. It saves you money for training. It saves you money for time. He's already a good dude. The rest of the guys will trust you. They'll see he's doing better. Maybe they'll stop drinking. Versus get rid of them and get a new one. It's if you don't care about humans, it's less expensive to take care of people. So I tell the bean counters if you don't care about people, it's cheaper to take care of them anyway versus paying it later yeah, yeah, does that mean you talked about something earlier, about one of the, the foundations of being home and and the relationships, um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's a two-pronged question. If I ask the first one, I'll ask the other one after, actually, but so how do we go about, or how do you go about, nurturing home, um, and your personal relationships, mate?
Speaker 2:a lot of talking, a lot of talking, um helping to understand what I've been through. I have to be honest to tell my spouse what I've been through. If I'm holding back then she doesn't get the whole story and she won't understand what's going on with me. I came full clean um everything I've done, from the good times to the bad times. It was one of the we were having a good time and then there were bad times, but there was a lot of good times and I just explained the lifestyle. And it wasn't just me, a lot of people did the same thing with her, so she got the full picture. But coming clean on my lifestyle, coming clean on why, and gave her the opportunity to understand, talking about post-traumatic stress, having the respect you know, giving respect to your children and giving respect to your spouse, versus you're at home taking care of the home and you take care of the kids. I don't work over here. No, even if that was the way it was, then it's not. Now you're home. Now you know you're part of the family, integrating to the family. That means you know parenting right as hard as this.
Speaker 2:It's hard for me to parent. It's hard for me to parent man. I, I can't baby talk, I can't calm, talk. I straight to the point and go get it. I'm good man, I'm not yelling, just go do it. They're like what you sound, mean. I'm like, oh God, so working on how you talk, right, I heard a lot of it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, oh, there it Again. Right To me, that's normal To me. That's me Right To most people around me. That's like offensive and loud and they don't like it. And it's it's too direct for most people. So like when you're in the military, for sure, when you're a special operations, really for sure, you're really detailed You're really going to annoy people with with how you gave. They don't live like that way. So learn to let go to integrate with the family. Let go of that shit.
Speaker 2:It was a job. It wasn't who you are, it was what you did then and it's not the rest of your life. It's not the rest of your life. A lot of guys look at it like I was here. I'll be here forever. I'm with my friends forever and that's okay to have friends forever. But to be stuck in that job forever keeps you from integrating back at home with your real family. I know those guys are on that thing at night in the day, all the times. I'm like what are you doing? What do you do other than this? You're you might as well instagram, right, like everybody else. You're on your phones oh, it's a signal chat with my bros. Okay, it's called instagram. Man, it's the same shit. It's like do something else with your time, spend time with your kids, and there's guys on there to show pictures of the kids and they're hanging out and that's, that's awesome, that's what it's for, I think.
Speaker 2:But most of it doesn't happen because of that ego and the guys are still living in the organization. But to integrate you got to let go, you got to kill that ego and realize, you know, if you can't communicate with your children, then just get down on the floor with them, let them crawl all over you, depending on how old they are. You're there for them.
Speaker 2:Let them know you're there for them. You're not going to be the best father, maybe, but they'll know you're there. You know my thing is I'm a provider. I'm not a good father, you know. I'll tell you some advice. I'll tell you what not to do. I know you won't listen, because listen you got to burn yourself to not touch the oven.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just. I could tell you all day long, don't stick your finger in the ice soccer. They're gonna be like, hmm, why not? And shock themselves like they're now. You know, right, it's trying to just, um, get down and be. You know, get down there and be for it, be there for them, just listen.
Speaker 2:Like I said, when I shut up and just started listening more, I understood what was going on with the kids. You know, I have an year old stepdaughter. I don't even know what to do with girls. Man, I have no, I stay away from that. But I consider myself a provider. You know, you can eat clothes you want to go. Here's a car, here's a phone, here's this, here's that. Now go to school, study, make sure you do your shit, you know, and we'll help you get to college. To me, that's my love language is providing Not gifts, but pretty much providing those different love languages out there. You know my wife wants loving, love letters and shit. You know, and me, I'm like I don't need anything. Just look at me and wave to me and love me. I'm done. So understand what other people need and children need the attention you know so to integrate back at home.
Speaker 2:You got to kill the ego, you got to get involved, no matter how scary it is. And I was terrified. I didn't know what to do with kids I had no idea.
Speaker 2:I got one of my own. He's 24, 25. Still don't really know him that well. I mean, I was never there and I didn't dive in, lay on the ground when I was home and talk to him. I was ready to go to the next thing. So if you don't let go of that job and that ego and fully focus at home, once you do that and with the tools of shutting up, listening, being present, like present, not thinking of something else or something that's next, but being present, looking your kids in the face and your wife in the face, your spouse in the face, life starts to change. And you see people change when they start becoming a family man or a family person. You know it's a tighter knit than it was with your bros. It's it's it's trusted more. They know more about you than your bros really know about. You know my wife knows more about me because I dumped everything to her. Then my bros know because they know what's at work. They don't know what's at home. My wife knew what was at work and at home.
Speaker 2:She's got it all and she's strong for knowing all of it and sticking around for what I put her through early on. But I think the sooner that you can integrate back into that family and kill that ego, the less issues you'll cause along the way that snowballs through the years and makes it harder and harder.
Speaker 1:What suggestions might you have for somebody that maybe is listening, that feels that they haven't got the home or the family support network they have it.
Speaker 2:They just don't think they have it right. There's always a support network out there. What do you call your family? Is it your friends? Is it your actual family? Is it a group of people? There's always support out there. I've heard every excuse on the planet. You know, um, but the one about well, I don't feel like I'm supported. I hear that from people who are supporting, like what more do you want? I can't do everything or anything for you. I can't do anything for you. I'm giving you this, you're doing nothing with it and you want more from me? I mean, I give people the hard talk, but getting in there and where was that again, man? I thought that's funny.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, for the people that feel they don't have the, the support, yeah, family, that they're always there. You're saying it's always there.
Speaker 2:There's.
Speaker 1:Those are excuses not to ask for help because you don't, you're saying I won't get it, so I ask yeah, yeah, talking about um, your story, tom, stepping away from a unit that generally stays very much emerged in the shadows, um, and writing a book, and and not only about what you've gone through, but your personal story a day as well. What was that experience like? And I'm curious? Yeah, again, I'm going to pause myself and have a follow-up in a second I'd have forgotten.
Speaker 2:Anyway. I uh, my tbi kicks in. I'm like I used to try to hide it and I'm like, no, I'll just sound stupid, I'm just gonna let it, let it out. You know, writing a book, um, I was never gonna write a book, never now. I never even thought about writing a book. Some of my friends like let's write a book on this and that. Funny shit. I'm like I'm not writing a book. Man, you know, screw that.
Speaker 2:And even when I was in, I'm like anybody writes a book about the unit, you should go away. You know, I get it, I 100% get it Right Over and over. We're answering phone calls, you know, 10 hours a day on the phone with people and more, telling the same story to all these people. My wife's like you need to write a book so everybody can hear it all at once. We stop being on the phone all the time. This will be a start. People are like you're crazy. This shit is not happening, not happening. And she kept hitting me at it and I go okay, well, I'm going to do it the right way. I'll go through the unit. I'm going to go to the unit and do it the right way. Maybe they'll stop me and I won't have to do this book.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't stop me. We got a lot of it written down. I handed it off to them. They met me out here and they said, hey, can you remove this and that? And yep, I took it out, got the book finalized, sent it to them again. They read it hey, looks good, can you remove this word here? And I'm like, yep, read the final thing. Sent an email to me saying thank you for letting us work with you on this book. Everything was good to read it.
Speaker 2:No, I go, it's not very fucking flattering. So chill, you know it's. It's not about all the secrets, it's about whatever I got approved to write about and most of it's how I fucked it up, you know. So maybe you should pick up the book. You'll see a little bit of yourself in it and hopefully you'll get some. You know you'll head on down the road of getting help. But I expected that, you know. I expected that from that, from people Um, it still goes on. It still goes on, like in those groups are vicious. Anytime anybody does a podcast. Or all Sean Ryan, that jackass, oh, this guy anytime anybody does. Well, there's a little bit of, um, maybe jealousy and anger in there that they have to attack you for it or just because it's something different than they thought that you should be doing. But I don't answer to those guys. I let go of that place.
Speaker 2:I let go of the ego and I don't answer to any of those dudes in that chat or anybody in that organization other than who I choose to converse with if I want to. Freedom of speech really covers you all the way through, you know. So everybody thinks they signed those documents and shit. You know I get it. I'm never giving up a secret. I'm never giving up a secret. I'm not going to give up a secret, get anybody hurt or killed. What was my shit? 20, some odd years ago, 30 some odd years ago, and then 20 years ago, and then it goes on. It's pretty old. I don't think I've given up anything. They do stuff Now. I have no idea what they're doing, run around with equipment I can't even use.
Speaker 2:I realizing how much it bothered me. It was very therapeutic to tell another person and my life, and then the right part of my life, and then to read it and then rewrite it and then read it again and I'm like, oh my God, I'm a horrible person. You know I was a shitty human being. I mean I did all this great stuff but I was a shitty human being. How can I be a better human being and still do good things?
Speaker 2:So on the side of you know your friends. You're worried about losing your friends. I've realized those were co-workers. Right, my mates are co-workers. If they don't know my kids names or my birthday, we're not friends. You know what I mean. We're not. That's a term that I threw around for everybody I met. Now I know there's acquaintances, I have friends, I have less friends, I have more acquaintances and I have some co-workers who might be friends or acquaintances, but it's. I've learned the difference of that word. But those people will attack on and if you do things the right way and you're doing it for the right reason, I think it works itself out anyway. And I did do things the right way and you're doing it for the right reason, I think it works itself out anyway, and I did it for the right reason.
Speaker 2:It wasn't about me, I mean, it wasn't a look at me, I'm kicking ass book for sure, and everything I've done since then is just truly to help other people, not for me. The book money goes back to the foundation. Oh, you're getting rich. Have you ever wrote a book? Man? You don't get rich writing a book. Anyway, that money goes into the foundation whenever book sales goes right in the foundation. So it was a marketing tool really for us.
Speaker 2:And then jen wrote her book and you know arsenal hope to finish it on and it's kind of a compilation and an ending of the healing part as well, so that one kind of attaches to mine and it's just, it's all for the foundation, it's all for people who might read it. And and I've gotten thousands, I don't know, I don't know by now Messages of people you know, like you said, you saved my life, you helped me. I read your book and, oh my God, I saw Sean Ryan and I never thought of it that way and, man, you really helped me. Those messages come in all the time. I love those. Okay, billy, I don't even quite respond. It's some troll out there in his mom's basement having a good time making people angry Not this guy, you know I'm not happening today, I don't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it, mate. And my follow-up question you mentioned the name was Sean Ryan was the last time you talk about the Mogadishu story. Was that a decision that you made going into that interview or did that happen?
Speaker 2:I'm done with doing this, go into it. I didn't even want to do it. Um, I think I get a couple of requests showing around, showing around. I was like I know what he's gonna talk about. I know what he's gonna talk about and I just kept putting it off, just you know I wasn't doing it for fame and shit.
Speaker 2:I didn't. And I had to tell myself what good would it do for the organization and will it help people? And so when I framed in my head as to what I would do and my wife talked to sean like, hey, I would like to kind of head in this direction she ended up actually being on part three as well that I decided to do it and, uh, get it all out there. But I decided I'm not doing this again, I'm not doing the long form. I went to Somalia death, death, death, death, death. And there's still death to this day from Somalia. I wanted to do it because I thought it would reach more people, and it has. And it got more people to the foundation. It got money to the foundation a little bit, but more so. It got more people to the foundation a little bit, but more so. It got more people to the foundation. It got more people to read the book which then went to the foundation.
Speaker 1:Um, I still get messages today.
Speaker 2:That was what over a year ago. Still get messages today. I see people in the airport hey look at hey, were you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, hey, thanks, man. That really, you know, got me thinking about some stuff. My good, that's why I did it. That's exactly why I did it was to help people yeah, love it, mate.
Speaker 1:And and, like I mentioned to you as well, I listened to a minute of it and I remember I thought I've heard all I need to hear and, having interacted with you on the podcast and followed and listened to you for a while, mate, I thought, yeah, love it. Um. Yeah, I've for me. I think I'd like to acknowledge you for your courage to stand up and tell your story, mate, um, um, and be open and honest, and and and help people to, to shine a light on themselves so that they can seek change that they need for themselves and for others. So, yeah, thanks for that, tom.
Speaker 2:Thanks, it gets easier. It was very hard up front. Now I don't care, and it gets easier. You know, it's just kind of one of those things, but once you cross that line right, you've crossed it you're out on the dance floor and it's empty. Start doing weird dances, people start joining you, finally. So that's what happened.
Speaker 1:Brilliant mate, brilliant. Listen, tom. I could go on for quite a while talking, but my gut tells me that I think we we're close to being there, mate, so I'd like to give you the opportunity. Is there anything that you would want to mention or talk about before we start to bring it to a close?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, man, I think a key point that I hear all the time. I hear from my therapist, I hear it from the other modalities of healing that we send people to. There's many people we're hooked to to heal, to help heal people, and we're the center connection with the coaches, the counselors, the coaches that talk you through everything and help you understand it. I want people to know that it's not a one and done. You can't do one modality of healing or one form of therapy and say I'm done, I'm all fixed, it's not going to happen. It's just people say, well, I'm going to get the SGB shot, okay, we work with an organization saying, well, you have to get a pre-counseling session, coaching session, first, one to three, and then you get your SGB and then you've got the follow-on treatment. Because you need those treatments. You need the behavioral change treatment, you need to get the tools. When you talk, don't say this, here's a tool to help you, not say that Practice it, you'll get better at it. It becomes your new muscle memory.
Speaker 2:So many people have the excuse of well, I tried this and it didn't work, so I'm done. Okay, did you ever miss a target? Okay, did you shoot it again or were you done? You know, I mean the stupid things people say to try to just not do what they need to be doing. It's just that it's not a one and done A tackle different modalities of healing.
Speaker 2:But always go to coaching. Always get a counselor or coach that can help you with tools, not talk therapy. I'm going to just talk and then leave and I'll see you next week. We'll talk again. We have people that give you tools and you have to practice them and then, when you come back to see them next, they ask you how did it go? What'd you practice? What'd you do? Well, I didn't. Okay, you're going to do it again. Bye, come back. If you're not growing, you're going back at it, and if you don't have the tools to handle that, you're right, back at it again. You've got to start over. But the people have done the coaching with whatever they've done TMS, deli, you know yoga, whatever the hell you do, you know psychedelics. It all goes back to coaching and life change and behavioral change, and our coaches will give you the tools to practice to make that happen. So I want to tell everybody not to quit. Right, the greatest failure is the failure to try. So why would you stop? And then that's where you die.
Speaker 1:Keep going just like you did in your job and tackle life the same way, and what I'm hearing there is it's, it's the journey again and it's a for me. I reflect when you're speaking. There's so much more that I can learn about myself. It's not to to get yeah, to fix it, and then everything's done and dusted. It's. There's so much more that I can learn about myself, and the benefit of that is like you've alluded to, is it?
Speaker 1:it impacts those that are close to us, um be that at home or at work, yeah tom, where can people find out a bit about more about you um the all secure foundation and the work you do, buddy?
Speaker 2:yeah, everything can be found at all secure foundationorg, and from that one site, that's our website. From there you can a donate, obviously. B get help. C sign up for camp home front, um. D. There's all other resources on there. If you don't want ours, great, we don't care. I mean, I want you to get something.
Speaker 2:Here's other organizations, um, directions to our podcast that we've held, that we're getting ready to start back up again, and that's all talking to people like you and everyone else that can help. Here's a, a story. Listen to the story, connect with it, find out what they did. Now go do what they did and try that. The YouTube channel so that's the place where you can go and get everything, that one-stop shop. You know, starting with healing, and it's just as easy as clicking a button.
Speaker 2:You know our camp home fronts are coming up in Austin and that's kind of recruitment. You know we have like a TED Talks full of people professionals that come up on stage and talk up until about three in the afternoon. You know we feed you breakfast, lunch and then three in the afternoon. You're done, let's have fun. We cater all the activities, all the food, the bands play and stuff, and then you camp out that night. The next day we do it again and then everybody signs up there. All these different nonprofits that show up, we get our hooks in. You versus hey, email me if you want something. Never hear from you again, right, get our hooks in. You give me your email and your phone number. I already have it for them signing up for home front. But the other orgs you know that they talk about what they do for free. They can help you. Sign them up right there. Sign them up right there, and then we've helped so many people that way that you know, we can't let them go.
Speaker 2:You know spec ops, guys disappearing in the woodwork. You know that's a great idea and they're gone. You never see them again, right? So you got to get your meat hooks into them right away and let them know that you're there for them all the time.
Speaker 1:Love it, Tom. Well, mate, thanks again for taking the time to speak to us. Thanks again for the courage to tell your story and for all the work you do, mate. It's greatly appreciated. I appreciate it, Aaron.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on.