Forging Resilience
Join us as we explore experiences and stories to help gain fresh insights into the art of resilience and the true meaning of success.
Whether you're seeking to overcome personal challenges, enhance your leadership skills, or simply navigate life's twists and turns, "Forging Resilience" offers a unique and inspiring perspective for you to apply in your own life.
www.linkedin.com/in/aaron-hill-synergy-coaching
https://www.instagram.com/aaronhill_79/
Forging Resilience
60 Jon Bevan: Time Hacking vs Time Hustling: A Police Officer's Rebellion
Have you ever received feedback that hit you like a punch to the gut? That's exactly what happened to Johnny Bevan, the Police Stress and Burnout Coach, when his new sergeant criticised his time management skills—ironically, one of the areas where Johnny coaches others.
In this conversation, Johnny reveals the shame that surfaced beneath his initial defensive reaction, stemming from a core belief that he wasn't "good enough." With remarkable vulnerability, he walks us through his real-time process of navigating these difficult emotions, separating thoughts from facts, and transforming criticism into an opportunity for growth.
What makes this episode particularly powerful is Johnny's commitment to work-life balance in a profession notorious for burnout. After nearly burning out multiple times during his police career, Johnny developed clear boundaries and priorities—saying no to non-urgent tasks and after-work socials to protect time with his family. Now, his healthy approach is being challenged by workplace expectations, presenting a perfect crucible for testing his resilience practices.
Johnny shares practical wisdom on distinguishing between guilt ("I've done something wrong") and shame ("I am wrong"), finding compassion for yourself in difficult moments, and connecting personal struggles to a greater purpose. His journey demonstrates that emotional resilience isn't about avoiding difficult feelings but learning to navigate them with awareness and self-compassion.
Whether you're facing criticism at work, struggling with people-pleasing tendencies, or simply interested in building greater emotional resilience, this conversation offers valuable insights and practical strategies. Johnny's story reminds us that our greatest challenges often become our greatest teachers—if we're willing to stay open to the lessons.
Subscribe to Forging Resilience for more conversations that challenge conventional thinking about strength and leadership, and help you develop resilience in all areas of life.
_______________________________________________________________________
If you found value in today’s episode, it would mean the world if you could take a moment to leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us grow and reach more people looking to build their own resilience.
And don’t forget to hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
Follow my social media accounts | LinkedIn | Instagram |
Click here for my monthly newsletter, mix of insights, reflections and questions. To share with other driven people like you, for your own insights and application.
Welcome to Forging Resilience, exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership. Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge, success and leadership. Today, on Forging Resilience, I'm joined by my good friend and coach, johnny Bevan, who's just broken wind. John is a police officer who's also known as the police stress and burnout coach. Personally, after his facing the toll on the job and knowing what it can take firsthand, he made it his mission to help others in the force navigate the pressure and manage stress and avoid burnout. Through honest conversation but, more importantly, powerful coaching, he's helping officers stay resilient, not just in uniform but in life. Johnny, welcome buddy.
Speaker 2:Hello mate, how are you doing, you okay?
Speaker 1:I'm really good that wasn't a real break.
Speaker 2:Win, is it?
Speaker 1:No one else knows that. Let's go. What are we going to talk about today?
Speaker 2:We were going to talk about today. You know we were going to talk about making mistakes, wasn't it? But I thought it'd be good to talk about, um, expectations held by others and shame and all those things related to it, and I just thought I'd talk about, if you were happy with it, what I'm experiencing at the moment, because, yes, it's quite-.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's go for it, mate. Then so what have you got on your mind or what's happened to you recently, that you are feeling about expectations? Nothing, oh well thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 2:Hope you enjoyed the show people. No, so just put some context in it, because it is actually quite funny when you hear it. I think it is anyway. So I do stress and burnout coaching and one of the big things for me is time management. But it's not about managing time, it's about managing yourself, which what it incorporates for me.
Speaker 2:I've noticed in police what we do is we take on loads as in like. So if you've got, say like, and this is situation, you've got a moment, you've got a remand, someone that's remanded in prison, and then you are tight time limit and you got inquiries to do in a tight time limit, and then you go right, I got that to do. You're almost still expected to take on the live jobs and it it's almost like when do I get this done? What a lot of cops do is take their laptop home, flick it open, working on rest days, working 12, 15 hour days to get that done. And of course I used to be that way and probably two or three times I was really close to burning out.
Speaker 2:So through this coaching journey of like six years, I've really changed that and it's really I've got this lovely balance. I've got this lovely balance of. I think I'm really focused, efficient, get stuff done and and I've and actually I push back not I'm talking about work at the moment, thank you better, pushing back never hurt anyone, anyone, anyone. So but it's really interesting because I had a one-to-one my one-to-one the other day with my new sergeant and I actually got picked up on my time management and they said and they said, oh, this is what we're trying to do is improve the team and that and um, we got, she said, and they got some feedback for us. Oh yeah, always welcome a bit of feedback when it's good no, I thought negative when I fucking agree with it.
Speaker 2:but they said it's your time management. And I was like, really, because I was like I, I coach on it. And it is amazing how, in that moment, all the anger and the anger but I managed it and navigate it really well with all these sort of strategies and tools I've got I'm realizing which I'll come on to in a minute is underneath that was this feeling of shame, as in like I shouldn't, oh my God, I shouldn't do this. And then he's questioning these doubts have I got this wrong? But it's been really interesting.
Speaker 2:I think everyone in any sort of job it's not just the police can appreciate this. When you're getting a demand from above and they're going, this is what I expect. You're getting a demand from above and they're going, this is what I expect. And for me, when I asked what is the expectation here it is really funny because it was literally every red flag I have when I'm coaching someone burnout they said. I said how how can I progress this and improve this? Then they went make more time. I was like, well, that's always my go-to thing of you can't make time, it's just there. Um, I had to learn to multitask, which I was like, yeah, that's definitely the thing I say we shouldn't do and that I ought to.
Speaker 2:Didn't say this in these words, but it was like hustle like in the breaks, move through breaks and if there's work to do, just work through it. And I said to her well, so would you sacrifice your wellbeing over the work? She went yes, and of course, when we got into her expectations she's a part-time, always had a full-time caseload and has been really interested navigating this. So I'm right in the middle of it and it's been fantastic because I've come up with a program called manage the managers Cause cause you go. Actually, this is something where you go if I don't, if I don't measure up to their expectation, there is a real consequence. But what I see is I've sort of had this honest reflection and going am I slow at some stuff? Am I not prioritizing in that? And that can sometimes be really hard, that honest reflection. But then when you're asking for the solution and they just keep saying you just need to find more time.
Speaker 1:Can I ask, though, was there any data given to you that you, I don't know, that you have to manage X amount of cases, but you're only doing?
Speaker 2:Y. What they said was we've got these so many crimes. And they said well, what you're doing is you're progressing, you focus on a few, get them, and then these other ones aren't being updated. But of course, what had happened was it had come from a previous, when I had my last one-to-one. They said these jobs are old, Can you please? We need to focus on those. So I focused on those, but then they've gone, but this isn't done. And I went yeah, but this isn't done because we're here.
Speaker 2:And when I was having this conversation, I was saying do you, can I just ask what are you saying? That you want this done? Yes, but you also want this done, but do you realize, if I'd done this, this wouldn't be in the position it's in now. And they went yeah, but that's where you've got to get better at multitasking. And, of course, for me, it's been fascinating, because this is what I believe is the whole issue with the police and so many organizations where we just it's an unrealistic expectation. Of course, I see all the flags in this person when they say well, I would like to let people down, which is the number one belief people have in burnout. I don't want to let people down so they overwork and burn out and let themselves down, but having that person managing you with those expectations, but it's really. It's really good in a way, because you go. I've approached this in a very different way before. I'd have been very fucking angry, but before you before you go there.
Speaker 1:So you, you said that you got angry in that moment, but you also worked through that. But if we zoom out a bit further, what are you making that mean about yourself? We zoom out a bit further, what are you making that mean about yourself? Then what's the what's the challenge here for you?
Speaker 2:well, I, I know what it is because I did my. I could get my self-coaching book because I got it here somewhere, but it was basically. It's basically that, almost like I've. You know that what I'm, what I believe is wrong, what I believe is wrong, and and it really came up that I'm what I believe is wrong, what I believe is wrong, and and it really came up that I'm not good enough, which is ironic because I can never. I coach a lot of people on shame and that and I never had, I've never had that or I don't think, not openly, I've never been coached on it. And suddenly it's just like, ah, this is shame, this is what shame is. I've had guilt and all this Like I can feel it. Now it's like that. Oh, and knowing that, that defensiveness, because when I say I was angry, I was feeling it but not expressing it, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I was like feeling, feeling.
Speaker 2:But you're seeing that what was really driving everything was shame. And that shame is like that that you're not, not, not that you're not doing enough. It was that that thought was there I'm not, I'm not doing enough, but it's that thought I'm not good enough yeah I'm not good enough.
Speaker 2:I'm not doing. I'm not doing enough, equals I'm not good enough. And how I'm not good enough I'm not doing enough, equals I'm not good enough. And how the brain gives it that meaning straight away which creates the shame which makes you want to go. For some people they wither away. I just want to fucking attack Headlocks. No, but it's interesting how you go, like you listen to these voices and I'm so grateful for this work because you go. There's so many people under this pressure, but I think it. I think the big thing is it makes me question what I do yeah because you go.
Speaker 2:You go, actually, have I got this wrong? And then when I I just spoke to my old sergeant, I was like can you just tell me? And he brought up a couple of the same issues. I said you've never talked to me about it, but can you say, do have you seen anything? Because this is my self-reflection, my honest reflection. You think, oh, I don't want to hear this, but here we go and he brought up the same things.
Speaker 2:He said when you're doing a case file, you're so absorbed in it and you don't take on the job. So I went. But would you change that? He went no, so, and that's why I'm a bit of a loss. But I go, and what I think where the questioning comes from is I've got this thing that's been raised to me, which I've taps into one of my beliefs. I'm not quick enough anyway, um. But then when I say, but do you understand when I was doing that? Do you think I worked on that? I was slow when I worked on that, they go no, we think you worked at a good pace.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what's your complaint? That you didn't take on any extra work when you're doing it? But how was that work going to get done if I took on more work. And my take on it is the way the police has worked before is we have this work coming, we have a high demand and then they just keep giving you work and then people do it in their own time. So it's like behind closed doors and then, voila, people think it's done. Of course my approach has changed. I say no, which one do you want me to do? And of course I don't think they like that when it's put back on them. But it's really interesting trying to get that honest reflection when you're probably a little bit defensive. You know what I mean yeah, mate.
Speaker 1:So if for you, what's the distinction or the differentiation between? Um shame and guilt?
Speaker 2:guilt is um, I've done wrong. So if someone says you should have done this, so if I forgot to do something, or if you go out into a nightclub, fall over and your dick falls into someone, if you, if you do something, it's like an action, a behavior that is guilt. And guilt for me is it's a tribal thing, it's you know, it's when your beliefs aren't aligned with your behavior. If your behavior goes out of line with your beliefs, you feel guilt and it pulls you back in, whereas shame is like it's about you. Guilt is I've done something wrong, Shame is I am wrong, as in this means something about me. Yeah, and I think shame is oh, it's fucking hard pill to swallow, really, and you and and I think it is an attack on your ego, and everyone responds differently, but I can just feel my like. What? What the little voice in my head suggests you should do?
Speaker 2:probably not for fucking podcast but it is just yeah, but I could just yeah and but just know. But I think, with this work, knowing that that is that response is just because it's like almost as a fence mechanism against shame. And what I've realized and this is where I am at the moment with it, because I've sort of gone I was doing my self-coaching this morning and I've gone the first stage I need to get to and I really appreciate how hard this is for my clients now is knowing that how I'm feeling is not created by the circumstance. That shame, the anger, whatever I'm feeling, is me and that is. And even as I do it this morning I was going no, it's not the case, but you go.
Speaker 2:And I don't think you can move on until you at least realize that this feeling is created by you, because otherwise I'm on. I'm there because otherwise I'm attacking something outside that doesn't need attacking. I'm there because otherwise I'm attacking something outside that doesn't need to attack it. And I do an exercise with people where I say right, tell the story from the other. You've heard me say this. We've done this exercise.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, and I always because I've had an issue since I've been coaching. I've not ever come up like loggerheads with someone since, so I probably not had the experience to do it myself. When the tension, when the emotion is running high and I've done it with people I say well, tell the story as if from the other person's point of view, and the only person that's done something wrong is you, and I've had people go. I can't, I'm not doing that, I can't do it. And I've been like, oh, surely they can try, do you want to just try? And they're like, no, we're not doing it.
Speaker 2:And this morning I was like, oh, I can't fucking do that. But I see that it's the next thing I need to do before I can move on, like, first of all, I've gone. Ah, this feeling, and it's like a roller coaster. An hour ago I was on a high. This is the best thing, this is happening to me, this is happening for me, not to me. I was like that, oh, this is amazing. Just got off a phone call with someone. Shame, shame, oh God. Now I go. Oh, but knowing, even as I talk through now that that's all transient and actually it's not factual, it's just my brain's meaning, it's given to this situation, my brain's given it a meaning and it's creating shame, acknowledging that, really taking ownership for it, which is fucking hard, I can't say.
Speaker 2:It is hard to go, because I really don't like feeling like it, but going. I have to open up to it and then seeing that that other person seeing it from their point of view not to make me wrong, not to make them right or vice versa, to go okay. Actually there is a different version of a story here, because otherwise what I find is you can lose the truth in it. There could be something that if people start saying actually, john, this is an area where you need to pick up on a bit, if you're defensive, you can't see that and if you really don't like shame which I don't think you can seek that, whereas when you know if someone tells me this, it's not going to feel good, but it's really needed so.
Speaker 1:Does it feel impossible, then, that I mean and and when, in terms of holding guilt rather than shame or or another emotion, frustration or anger, and and and? And? How do we move ourselves from shame once we can accept absolutely? It's not. I'm wrong. There's something here that I can look at.
Speaker 2:This is what I believe is you. First, you have to separate the thought that's creating the shame as a thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have you got any insight into that for us?
Speaker 2:so what I do might be so what I do is so, for anyone listening who sort of is new to this work, your brain produces thoughts and there's 60 to 70 000 of them a day and there's it's literally churning them out, and your brain's a survival machine. It's just looking out for you and and it's giving, and your thoughts give meaning to your events, your circumstances. So, in other words, someone else could have been given that feedback and just gone. I don't give a shit and they could have just gone. All right, well done and just and I know people that like that, they just go. I I've just been told I'm not working hard enough. I really don't give a fuck. So it's not the event.
Speaker 2:So when you are doing this, it's like going right, my brain is giving this event a meaning. Now, whether you agree with it or not is not really the thing. It's just identifying that it is a thought, it's not a fact. So the facts are. My sergeant said I think you need to work on your time management. That's the facts.
Speaker 2:My brain made that mean lots of things, but one of them was I'm not good enough. Now, what it made it mean to start with was the first thing, the anger was I'm under attack. Okay. So it's the brain going oh, don't worry, I got this, we're going to fucking nail it. Here we go and you want to take their legs, chuck stuff back in their face.
Speaker 2:But when you get down under that anger, it's the shame which is created by this thought. And then for me, it's about going. It's really about the next stage is being able to open up to that feeling you don't like, and by that I mean not trying to get rid of it, knowing that how it feels now is like a heaviness behind my eyes. It it's like oh, it's heavy, it's like a weight in my stomach, and not doing that to try and get rid of it it's like going no, this is shame, I'm creating this.
Speaker 2:I'm actually creating this and learning to just be with it, because what I went through a stage of my brain, wouldn't switch off from the problem, and the reason that is is because I'm resisting the shame. But what I do then is I torture myself because my brain is adding stuff to the scenario. So when you recognize that this is the way I'm feeling, this is why I'm feeling it, and then, when you actually open up to it and realize this is part of the process, you stop blaming other people, which gives you your power back, because if I think this sergeant has created my shame, she's the enemy she needs to change, whereas that is like you're in complete helpless mode. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I get it, mate, I get it. So again, to reflect back for you and for others that that sense of shame is that at some level you, you believe that quote unquote you're not good enough or that you're working too slow yes, and that is the key is.
Speaker 2:This is what I believe is it's not that we have the thoughts, because everyone has the thoughts, like you say. The only reason her saying that has had this effect is because I think there's an element of truth in it. Really, because you think if I said to you, ron, I don't like the striped shirt you're wearing well, you're wearing a Czech shirt You'd just be like, okay, because it has no basis of truth, does it? You and someone go, that is a shit striped shirt, it's shit. I mean, it is a shit shirt, it's not a shit stripe one, but that you'd literally be like but if someone said, czechs, oh fucking hell, like a cowboy, boy, mountain or something, what's going on there, that you might then go, oh, because it's maybe, but you, we.
Speaker 2:I think it's when we think there's an element of truth in it. And a belief I've always had is I'm not quick enough, but ironically, what I love is my thoroughness. I love that. That. That's why I love detective work. But, of course, what someone has basically done, what someone has basically done is they have said something and they've highlighted a belief that I clearly hold. And then, rather than and this is the ironic thing with the human brain. I'll say that to myself every day You're not quick enough, and all this, you know you're not doing enough, and all this, my brain says that all the time. As soon as someone else says it, I go who are you to say that? And we go on the attack and you go. Well, actually, if we didn't tell ourselves it, it wouldn't be a problem.
Speaker 2:And then this is where I think the next stage is realizing that these people are a gift, these people that make that, you know, when we suddenly have this experience. They it may not seem like it, but they are the gift, because they're squeezing out the self-doubt that you need to address to move through life. And that's what I think now and that's where I was today was it's like going. This is actually the opportunity I need, because what I've done and and I'll be honest it's made me go, oh, like a snap of the fingers, a a little bit spiritual Cause I I've always been not so much that way, always wanted to, and now I sort of go. Why, why is this happening to me? Well, because I'm banging on about being resilient, um, about saying no, about living by your values, and that can be hard. You can actually get challenged and someone else might have an expectation you do not want to meet and then have consequences and I think the universe has gone all right. Then here you fucking go, have that lot, see how you get on with it, and and because of that it makes it so much easier to deal with because I suddenly go. Oh, there's a meaning amongst this. I've actually and it sounds a bit corny, but especially as I say this I go.
Speaker 2:I've been given this opportunity, and I think we say this academically sometimes like, oh, it's an opportunity, it's not an obstacle, it's an opportunity. But I actually go. I wanted this, I've wanted to test my resilience and you think, well, if the road's just easy and you say no, and everyone's fine with it. But when you go no, and someone goes because that was the other thing I pulled up on for saying no, I'm not going out on team nights out, I'm like I don't look like you, no, but but when you, I want to just bring me back to that because I want to say something. But when you, I want to just bring me back to that because I want to say something.
Speaker 2:But when you realize it's all here for a reason, whatever it is, and it feels hard. It feels fucking hard and it does. But what I? I was upstairs earlier and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror and I was suddenly like I'm pretty proud. And I'm proud because it's been hard. I'm proud because I've experienced shame, and now when I'm coaching someone, I can really know firsthand how raw this is. And actually you're not just going to snap your fingers and love this person and see it from their point of view. Actually it's going to take a while and you've got to be committed to that change for yourself. And yeah, so it's actually been.
Speaker 2:But it's funny because you don't feel necessarily excited all the time, but it's like there's a meaning. I get what Viktor Frankl said. Now, when there's meaning in the suffering, then basically life is okay. And it's not that you go, oh, if I'm meaning in this, and now I'm enjoying it, you can just see a meaning in it. And for me, I used to think I had to find the meaning, as in like, oh, I'm trying to find the meaning here and I'm like no, I give it the meaning. And that is so much more powerful to me. I'm going to give this a meaning, because I get to choose what the meaning is. And then I'm like now we're, now we're going, here we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you wanted me to take you back to team nights.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, cause it's one of the things I do and I think I've done this with you, not that the other one, not on that drunken night, no, in the Brecon Beacons it was cold, all right, very lonely there's actually a lot of us there Not lonely. Things I say is you've got to get clear on your priorities because we get sometimes we spend so much time with people and time is like your most precious resource. So my priorities and you've got to be clear on what you say no to and just be brave with saying no. You don't need to make excuses, you can just say no. But it's really interesting seeing how people they don't like it Because my priorities are me, my family, so my boys, my two boys, my wife, my parents at the moment, because my mom's not very well and my business, but often I'll just have like four at a time during a week and, of course, socializing with work doesn't come up there because I go. I don't want. My time is so precious with my kids. I don't want to go out on a night out in bristol in an escape room. I just that just doesn't do it for me. I want to go kayaking or I want to spend it with my kids. So when they ask, it's funny because I think that's actually quite nice because a lot of people go oh, yeah, I love that. Oh, escape rooms. You know what? I've been planning a skate room for ages. If nothing else, I just love an escape room.
Speaker 2:And then he gets to it oh, I'm ever so sorry, my fucking car's broke down. I got a cold, the dog's at the slipper and the cat's, roger, in the Amster, I can't possibly come out. And you're like, but I've been like. And so one of the things I got picked up for is you don't go out on team night. And you just say no, I'm like, I don't think that's a performance issue, that's an honesty issue. And I and I said what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say, yes, I'd love to come out and come out and not want to come out? Or do you want me to say I'll go and then make an excuse last minute, or do you just want me to go? No, that's not for me? And she said why are you? She actually said to me why are you not coming out? I was like because I just don't want to, it's not a priority for me and it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:This scenario has literally and this is why I think it's been given to me, because it has given me every single thing to deal with in one, because the other thing that was brought up was one of the teams said you can't get him to do anything, and of course what it is when I've booked in an inquiry and they're saying can you help me? I assess the urgency and if it's not urgent I say I've got to do this at the moment and it's fascinating how I can see how challenging this work can be for people and you've really got to want it Like for me. This work has given me everything I want. It's given me my balance, given me my joy back for the job. It's given me with my kids. But you realize some people don't like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this work being self-awareness coaching change.
Speaker 2:If you want to change it's. I would say up until now, I've definitely had challenges. There's been things faced with other people's opinions and all this, but this is probably one of the things that have struck home more for me. But when you go, literally, you're at a crossroads. You got a choice. You can go back to how you were before, working all the hours doing all that and saying yes to stuff to keep people happy who, when you leave their team, you won't probably ever see them again, or I just do, I'm true to myself and I allow all that to go on, and the only way you can do that is to be in control of your own feelings.
Speaker 1:100 a coaching question here for you, mate, and and that is what question might I ask you that would be helpful for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a bit of a.
Speaker 1:Around this shame, around this time management.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say what does it need? Well, two, I would say is there any truth in it? Is there any truth in it? Yeah, and if they're not, what are you going to do with it? And what does that shame need? Because when I say there's only truth in it, this is the ironic thing is I think this is my thing I actually think there's no truth in it and I've really looked at it, but what I do is I question whether I'm closing that down. So I want to make this make sense. So I've gone. I really want to dig into this to see if there is an issue, but I really believe that the issue is is because I've changed my way of working.
Speaker 2:When I look at my performance, I go. I get more done than I ever did, but when I go, I think it's just so when my brain is questioning going are you too slow, though, are you have you not? Actually, when I'm asking the people from the past the issues they've had, they have no answer for as in like, what they're saying is yeah, but when you had this job, you couldn't take on any more work, and you're like yeah, I know. My whole thing is I say to you what I've got on. You decide what's the priority if you think something else ought to be done. So I think for me, I go.
Speaker 2:I'm in that turmoil bit. Where I go, which is probably a bit of self-doubt, is what I've done, is the way I'm working right? And it feels like the answer is yes. This is just a hurdle. This is something I've come up against because of my new being yeah, but whereas there's a part of me that goes actually, do I need to change? And there's change as in for positive benefit, and there's change so I fit in yeah, conform conformity almost of what sounds like quite a backwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, top down inside out pressure expectation yes projected onto you yeah and you go and it's really interesting because this, obviously these comments key into all my beliefs, because one of my beliefs is I wonder if I get the book is I don't fit in. I don't think you've ever had those, have you? I don't belong, Never.
Speaker 1:Never.
Speaker 2:Always feel like you fit in and belong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people that don't listen, that's not true. It's one of the biggest things that I've got to face.
Speaker 2:It is, isn't it? And you suddenly realize that I don't fit in, I don't belong, and mine is. I'm different. And actually I realize, yeah, I am, and that's fucking brilliant, because I don't want to be the same, I don't want to be sacrificing my health for my job. But what you realize is when you're in a situation which squeezes out and that's all it's doing. It's not creating the feeling, it's just fucking squeezing it and it's come out because it's in me, it is. It may not seem like it Anyone listen to this. It may not seem like it, but it is the perfect opportunity to then go. It's out now. I can work on it because I know now it's almost like it feels hard, but I'm leveling up. It's like a computer game. You're gonna, I'm gonna level up and I'm gonna come out of this such a different person which, whatever happens, and and you go. Well, that's only good, isn't it? Because we mostly get better through adversity, but it's how we face adversity. So that's my sort of take on it really and, and.
Speaker 1:So to give you your second question as well what is it that your shame needs? What's the next step?
Speaker 2:I think it just needs compassion, kindness, these big arm around it and just go. You're safe, you know, and don't over question it. The truth will come out. I quite like that. Actually. The truth will come out, because if I ride this train, because what I've done is gone, I want to speak to the di and the ds together. Come on, let's speak to you together and I'm going to tell you, ask your expectation and see if I can meet that and then, but when you go, I don't have to overanalyze it, because if there is a, if there is a flaw in my work, that will come out. If everything is right, that will come out, doesn't need to be solved right now. Yeah, I think, yeah, I love it, mate, love it I think we're pretty much, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it, mate, love it. I think we're pretty much there for today, mate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's good mate.
Speaker 1:Is. Is there anything else that you want to add before we start to close out, especially given, yeah, Expectations, I think.
Speaker 2:I think it's also made me quite emotional because I sort of think of the other people going through it. If you don't mean, yeah, like I go, I find this like emotionally, like oh, up and down and I go. I'm lucky, I got like you I got, I got this work, I got my wife who's a coach, and I've got coaches I can go to and but I suddenly go and it really drives me to. But I suddenly go and it really drives me to do because I've got this program. It really drives me to go fucking hell.
Speaker 2:This is my purpose, because this shit this is what I'm going through crushes people. It may seem like only a small thing to someone listening, but I see people, most people, when they're pulled up like this, a lot of people go off sick and they never come back the same and that cause their their brain is spinning. I think my aim is to change it all and I just think when you can build that emotional resilience, it's not that you don't feel the emotions and you do need help, and I think that's my biggest thing is I will openly say I think you were probably one of the first people I messaged to go. What's happened here and I and you know me well enough that I often mask with humor, so you probably know when I'm making a joke of it oh, it's probably something that's going on here and you need that because, and what I want to say to people is, if you are in that similar sort of position, this is not worth breaking you and it doesn't have to break you. It can actually make you stronger.
Speaker 2:It really can, and I think I've realized now like I focus on stress and burnout in the police, but I almost think this is a niche within a niche is a niche within a niche because I actually find this has been one of I've been like oh, it's time to step up, because I could actually, I can actually be on a performance plan for this, for my new way of working which I've learned. This is quite amazing. I've learned when did you say, go to um time management? I'm actually a time hacker coach, but but you suddenly realize through this way of working which is really effective, because someone above you doesn't have, because they have the old views, it does have a consequence, but do you know what? And this is where, and suddenly I feel very different now, suddenly I'm in, I'm game is like I'm fucking in, yeah, as if from the outside reflecting back to you.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a very powerful reminder when you, when you can bring other people into this and probably people that you know and have worked with, that would be literally crushed by that. With off work, no doubt relationships affected, etc. Affected, et cetera, et cetera. Powerful reminder of your purpose and the work you do and why.
Speaker 2:Another reason why I've been given this situation, I think because I think I read in the book I can't remember which one it was now Pepper Goes to School.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't finished that yet. It's too hard. I've got the expectation effect too hard. I got the the expectation effect. It said it's about balancing, um, a meaning outside of yourself, a meaning outside of yourself with your well-being. And what you find is, when you have that meaning, if it was just about me, you could crumple a bit. But when I go, there's someone else out there who is making themselves ill to please this sergeant to do all this, and they're fucking killing themselves, and you go, I'm going through this, that's, that's the person I want to help. But balancing that with my well-being, that you, because I need to be well and healthy to help them. Yeah, and it does. It's literally like stoking a fire and you go right, let's fucking ride this train and see where it goes. And you're willing. I think was it? Nietzsche said the man that has a why can endure any how, and I think it's true. When you've got that why, you just go. All right, whatever, let's do it.
Speaker 1:And, like our mate Kyle said, at every level there's another devil. He did, he did say that he did say that, didn't he?
Speaker 2:but I think he got it from you and because I think you authored that didn't you right, I did. Thank you for that yeah, yeah, ron hill, there you go what a quote, john.
Speaker 1:Mate, it's been an absolute pleasure again to speak to you. Um, thanks for your honesty and openness, mate. Um, I'll put the the links into where people can find you if they're interested in reaching out to you. But yeah, as I said before we got going, mate, the gift is to spend time in your presence and thanks for the the work that you're doing and the help and support that you've shown me. Mate, it's uh this isn't going live, is it?
Speaker 2:well, not right now I thought it's just you told me this is a private chat between you it is just don't look at the podcast for a while. No, it's been a pleasure, mate, as always, and I love you and appreciate your friendship more than I think you realize. Likewise love you too, brother. Cheers mate.