S3 Ep112 James Porter: The Quiet Cost

Success can look loud from the outside. Full calendar. Big responsibility. People relying on you. A life that looks like it is working.

But what if it is quietly costing you?

In this episode of Forging Resilience, I sit down with returning guest James Porter, leadership communication coach and author of A New Way to Thrive.We talk about the quiet cost of success.

The kind that does not always look like collapse. 
It can look like saying yes too often.
Being needed.
Staying available.
Carrying things that were never really yours.
Coming home, but not really being present.

James shares honestly from his own life, including a season where stress showed up in his body through heart palpitations, and how blurred boundaries slowly became normal.

This is not a conversation about giving up ambition.

It is about asking:

What is this success costing me?

What am I carrying that I never consciously chose?

Where have expectations become obligations?

And what would it look like to design a life that actually works, not just one that looks successful?

James also shares the Living Rhythm Framework from his book, built around clarity, values, habits, structure and sustainability. 

This one is for anyone chasing big goals, holding a lot, or quietly wondering whether the life they have built still fits the person they are becoming.

Click here to register your interest in the The Thrive Mastermind. 

And to buy a copy of "A New Way to Thrive".

Forging Resilience supports Save A Warrior

Save A Warrior works with veterans and first responders facing complex PTSD and the reality of suicide.

Through this podcast, we’re supporting their work.

If you want to get behind it, you can do that by buying a bag of  Major Stoke Blend coffee.
All profits go directly to Save A Warrior.

Good coffee. Real conversations. Work that matters.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Forge and Resilience, real conversations for high performers facing transition. I'm Erin Hill. Join me as I talk with people about challenge change and the adversity they faced in life, so we can learn from their experiences, insights, and stories. Today on Forge and Resilience to do it, joined by James Porter. James, the leadership communication coach, author, and founder of EVO International Storyline Network. He works as high performers with people who might look to successful on the outside but are beginning to ask deeper questions about alignment, identity, relationships, and what success might really be costing them. James brings over 25 years of experience across leadership and communication and creative environments, including previous careers as a professional drummer and studio engineer. He's joined me previously on Forging Resilience, but today he's returning to speak about his book, A New Way to Thrive, The Rhythm of Life, which is the framework behind his mastermind and what it means to design a life that works, not just one that looks successful. James, welcome back, mate. It's great to see you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Good to see you too, Ron. And uh the first time I've actually ever called you Ron. So this is a historical moment. All you know is Aaron. Or if my son says AA Ron.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

AA Ron, yeah, I got to send that clip as well, and I didn't I didn't understand it for a long time until saw the rest of it and

Telling Your Story Without Performing

SPEAKER_00 1:25

then got it. So yeah, that's that is funny. Um the question that came to me just before we started recording is I think there's two. Um it's what what did you take away from our first conversation for yourself? Um, if you've not listened back to it, that's fine. But if there's anything that floats to the surface as you reflect back.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, I'm in terms of have I listened back to it, I think I listened to a little bit of it. I'm not a big fan of listening to myself. And I know a lot of people struggle with their own voice, but I was like, I'm not a big fan of my voice. In fact, my my daughter said to me once, if there's one thing about you that you could change, what would it be? I'm like, Yeah, my voice. I didn't even have to think about it. So that does mean that I tend not to listen back or watch back certain things. Obviously, there are times I have to, but I think you know that conversation was a a really, uh, a really good way for actually for me to externally process um a lot of the stuff that had happened in my life from a faith perspective, where we talked about church and faith and that journey. And um yeah, it was it was good to externally process that and and hopefully enables people to uh to what's the word embrace the journey rather than a destination. And so we can get so caught up in I want to be at a certain place, but actually the journey, which is oftentimes very, very wiggly and it doesn't make sense a lot of the time, and we question and we go through seasons of doubt, uh, whether that's self-doubt or uh a crisis of faith, or you know, there's so many different aspects to that. But the journey is where we grow, the journey is where we mature if we allow it to happen. Um, and so you know, in some ways, listening back to kind of your own life story, you realize actually the the richness of life and the richness of experience and what that actually brings us. Um and you know, just kind of tying in with where the world is at at the moment with AI and and the implications for coaching and therapy and all of that. You know, an AI doesn't have life experience. It doesn't have any sense of being able to empathize, to be able to show compassion because it's been there itself. And that's really important. Yeah, this face-to-face thing that we have right now, where we get to share life and the struggles, the challenges, the heartaches, the pain, as well as the victories um and the achievements. Yeah, that's that's part of being human. And so I think that all came out in for me in that in that talk that we had. You know, man, I've I've had a really rich life in the sense of experience. Um, so yeah, thanks for a good question.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

I um yeah, I really enjoyed it, and I think there's a lot to be said about the courage it takes to start speaking about your our own stories. And I think sometimes we can use 30,000 words when when only a hundred would do, or we downplay it and put it into a hundred words when really we could fill it out to 30,000. So yeah, I just there's a lot to be said for listening back to it. I'd fully, yeah, it's really interesting, impactful conversation for me, and one that I got to forward on to quite a few people, um, especially around the faith element, which was really interesting for me and another angle on on all that side of life.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Um so yeah, yeah, and and and that's sorry, I that and that's still evolving. Yeah, that that that story doesn't stop. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, but exactly that. That's the point. But if we don't, if we don't step up and start to speak or tell our story, or to bring certain things into the light, like work or what success actually means, if we're gonna refer back to the book, then then we never really know. And it's it it it's yeah, maybe it's not as aligned or not as not as rich, or we downplay certain things, um, or we don't allow certain things. So yeah, there's a lot to be said for it. And also, um, yeah, one of the beautiful things about recording this is the ability to just record, be present with you, put it out to the world. And if they think it's um valuable, great. And if they don't, that's not on that's not on me because I've had a an interesting, valuable conversation for me here, you know. So there's a lot to be said to it. So thanks for thanks for stepping up.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah, it's it's interesting you say that as well, because I think there's this I know that for me, one of my biggest challenges has uh has been wanting to be liked and and actually recognizing that as a coach, um, but even as a human being, is we can't expect everybody to like us. And in fact, it puts a huge amount of pressure um on us as individuals to have to want that. You know, we always obviously we want people to to like us, but in terms of our identity being wrapped up in, okay, these people like me, therefore I'm a good person, or therefore I'm I'm successful, or people want to be like me. And it's that the whole ego thing, isn't it? Where our ego gets puffed up. And the reality is that um you know there might be one person who hears this that it that it impacts, and everybody else thinks, what a what a waste of time. And and but for that one person, that can mean the world, and that's actually what's important.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, yeah. And but that that alludes to exactly that, that if we've never practiced telling our story, we don't catch ourselves using 30,000 words when only m maybe 500 or a thousand would do, because they're more impactful. Just to make us feel good about this one time at Band Camp or the equivalent type of story. Yeah, look at me. So yeah, I I I recognize there's a there's a lot, hence my point, there's a lot at reviewing, and I am still learning to listen to full episodes. It's something I generally do of my own recordings, by the way, over the summer. Um when I take a break from recording and editing and publishing and and just yeah, yeah, yeah, listen to certain episodes. Um, so it's fascinating. And I know what you mean about your own voice, but you get used to it. Not your voice, hearing our own voice. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

The Quiet Cost Of Success

SPEAKER_00 7:47

James, so what one of the things that your book talks about is the the quiet cost of success. Um, so what what in your own life has been that cost or a general cost that you see from from the people that you worked with?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah, I think you know the in the book I talk about as you said, as you mentioned, this kind of very it's almost like the silent decline or the silent fragmentation. And and it comes from again, a lot of ego plays a huge part in this as well, but wanting to be the person that people come to. Um, it's that you're you're the one that I come to for all of my issues. If I got a if I have a job that needs doing, I come to you because you always say yes. Um and because of the way that high performers are wired, it's it's like they there can be an identity issue where all of their identity is wrapped up by what they achieve. And at the same time, and when I want to say achieve from a work perspective, so whether it be a larger bank balance or whether it be we get to go on two or three holidays this year because we've got the finances to do it. Um, but there's a cost in usually in relationships. So it's it's the the the spouse who spends evenings alone at home, or uh the spouse who's sitting upstairs while you're in the office carrying on with emails. Um it can be your kids who you just don't get to go to those sports days, and they you become a bit more of a stranger in the house because you're you're up early and you're gone and you're back late at night because you're chasing this thing um which it which a lot of people would call success. Um but it's success in a very, very narrow part of life. And so the the cost could end up being divorce, and it could come out of nowhere because it happens so gradually that you don't recognize it happening. And we we we talked about this before we started recording, but this whole thing of most people only go to a cardiologist once they've had a heart attack. So we wait for this big moment as to be the wake-up call rather than actually assessing on a consistent basis where we're at, so having certain metrics in place that we're measuring, living from values, what are the habits that actually support those values? What are the obligations that we have in our life? Um and what are the things that we think are obligations but are just expectations? Um, and then do we have actually solid boundaries that prevent the uh the slow decay, let's put it like that. So in the book I kind of cover all of all of those aspects, but I think um yeah, I think that's that's probably good for good for now.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

What what what are signs are some of the signs then that you've seen in terms of the silent decline if if people maybe have not fully aware of the the the metrics or the values that they're operating from, even though it might if if they were to notice some some symptoms as it were, rather than the full-on heart attack, what what might some of those signs be, James? Do you think?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah, I mean I actually got I've got two examples, um, one of which I use in the book actually was for me personally.

Signs Of Silent Decline

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Um I I went through probably a year of having heart palpitations. So I was in a in a situation where I was in pastoral care and I was, although I was only paid part-time, it became a full-time thing. And actually the full-time stretched into pretty much my whole life. So anytime anybody needed help, I would be there to do it. So it could be meeting them in the evenings, it could be meeting at weekends, it could be, you know, just whenever they needed. And I I took um a certain amount of pride in that of always being available and always being the one to help. But I then started getting the heart palpitations. And so actually it was quite scary. One night I lay in bed for probably four hours, lying on my back with my heart, felt like it's coming out of my chest, and and asking the question literally every five minutes, I wonder whether I should get in the car and drive to the hospital. And so I ended up going to hospital, um, not from an emergency perspective, because I wanted it checked out. And they ran all the tests, nothing wrong physiologically. And then the doctor called me into his consulting room. He just said, Look, nothing's wrong physically, but tell me about your lifestyle. And so I shared what my life was like, and he said, I think this is just stress. And I just hadn't clocked it. And it sounded seems so obvious, um, looking back, but you can't keep on saying yes to everybody and not think that it's going to impact you physically at some point. So that was that's me. And then my wife, she actually did go, she she actually um had burnout twice. And again, it's this perspective of um always saying yes, but never being able to say no. So it's a boundary issue for both of us, it was a boundary issue. Um and so she actually did burn out, and it took weeks, probably months, to recover from that. So there's that's a couple of uh very, very personal um things that happen to us. But when I see in other people, um I I I do see relationships being impacted where people who started off madly in love and passionate about one another move gradually to this almost becoming roommates, and it happens so so subtly that you don't recognize it happening until one day one of them says, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. And they walk away. And that is a a result, it's the fruit of choices that they have made, which in the moment probably seem really good. They probably seem right, they probably seem like, okay, this is the next step on the ladder for me, or this is gonna open up opportunities. But it's always recognizing that with reward, well, well, sorry, we we balance reward and cost all the time with every decision that we make. So, yes, I could take this promotion and the reward reward will be greater recognition, uh, an increase in my salary, uh, more influence, all of those things. But then there is a cost. They're gonna require more of me, they're gonna take more than a pound of flesh because they now own a little bit more of me, and I have an obligation to that, and the people around me start to suffer.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah. I can't help but wonder then if one of those signs, as you mentioned, is relationships, but primarily there's a there's a disconnection with the relationship with ourselves to be able to pick up on those signs of overgiving or lack of boundaries or yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah, absolutely. And and I and I I think you'll you'll recognize this being a coach is people don't slow down enough to recognize what's happening, not just from a physical physiological perspective, but from our thought processes. You know, if you ask most people at the end of the day, what have you been thinking about? They'd like, I have no idea. I just kind of breeze through my day at a rate of knots, and now it's time to go to bed, and I'll wake up tomorrow and do the same thing. So it is kind of taking time out, it's stepping back and evaluating, right? What are what are my thoughts? What's governing those thought processes and my mindsets? Um, how do I feel? Like what's what's my body saying to me? You know, have I got aches and pains that I've just kind of ignored for a long time that actually need recovery? So absolutely, 100% agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

What what's some of the things that you do for yourself personally, then, James, in to maintain that relationship to yourself or create that space for recovery or or or awareness?

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah, that's that's great. Um I know I'm in I'm in a very privileged position where I'm not I'm not running a nine to five, so I'm not waking up at six getting breakfast, running out the door, and and doing a uh a full-time job. I have the uh the blessing of being able to really navigate each day quite uniquely because they're all my days look differently. But I think within within my day, I am very um uh

Self Check-Ins That Build Awareness

SPEAKER_01 16:35

intentional about taking time out to step back and check in with myself. And it's recognizing my thought processes. So when I start to think I start to recognize a greater need within me to be uh to be needed, I start to recognize um maybe even like financial pressures and and the impacts of those on me and and the fears that can come in from that. And so picking up on fear for me is a big one. What am I scared about? We you know, we mentioned earlier the whole AI thing, you know, there's there's a huge amount of fear around AI. Um, but but actually fear and all of these things, they're not necessarily good or bad, they're just they're information, and they they tell us kind of which direction we are aiming towards, and maybe we need to recalibrate a little bit and uh and redirect our thoughts. Um I mean interestingly, we were you know talking in the the faith perspe perspective, you know, in in in the Bible it talks about taking every thought captive. And it's like I think what that really means is um hearing our thoughts, understanding where if I latch on to this thought and I attach action to this, where's that gonna take me? And is that gonna be something that's gonna bring me life, or is it something that's actually gonna bring me death? And I was like, well, I want to choose everything that's gonna bring life. So I need to be aware of where it starts, and it starts with thoughts, it starts with feelings, it starts with emotions, and if we're not careful, those things become our master and we become a slave to them, and so and then life happens to us rather than life happening for us, you know. That's that the old cliche, but it's so true.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah, yeah. You talked about um like carrying the difference between obligations and and expectations, James. How how how do you start to distinguish or separate those two out to be able to let go of a few things potentially?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah, I think um sometimes, you know, in terms of expectations, let's take a let's take a job job description. When we enter into a job role, we get a job description, and that actually is our

Obligations Versus Expectations At Work

SPEAKER_01 18:54

obligation. You know, we we read through it, we agree to it, we sign it, we are now, we now have an obligation to fulfill that. But then within that job, very frequently, more and more things get uh pushed our way. Um we're expected maybe to stay on later in the evening to finish off certain tasks. And and there are certainly seasons for that. But when those things start to become the norm, and you realize that actually I've been saying yes to these small things one little thing at a time, they accumulate to a point where hold on a minute, I'm doing a whole lot more than I ever agreed to, and it comes at the cost of whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

So, and I and I I guess that it comes down at some point to setting some boundaries, and and and I know from my own personal experience with that, that's some of the most challenging and uncomfortable work that I've had to do because usually with the people closest to me. Um yeah, talk to us a little bit about boundaries and how we might how we might go around putting some in place to protect ourselves and our energy and the things that are important to us, James.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah, really good. I I I I I heard uh an analogy of of boundaries, which I thought was really, really helpful. And it was about um, like if you think of a medieval city, and right in the centre of the city is the castle where the king and his queen live, and all of the obviously is entourage as well. And and then in the centre of the castle you have the bridal chamber, right? The king's suite. And so moving out from that is you've got the king's suite, then you've got the castle, then you've got

Boundaries And Who Gets Access

SPEAKER_01 20:37

the city, and then you've got the city walls, and then outside the city walls you've got um the the country, which then has its borders, so it kind of gets broader and broader. Now, in the bridal chamber, the only people that you want there is the king and the queen. It's a place of intimacy, and the queen has full access to the king, body, soul, spirit. Everything is available. But outside of the bridal chamber, then there are boundaries put in place. It's like, well, hold on, you can't you don't have access to me the same way as my queen does. And then outside of that, the people in the city, they have even less access. And but you still serve them, and they might still be able to come to you and ask for advice and you know, all those kind of things. And then there are people outside who they're not even allowed inside the city walls. And so there are almost like um like who am I gonna allow into my bridal chamber is an easy one? Who am I gonna let into the next kind of ring out? Is maybe people who I I trust, uh, I know they are kind, I know they're gonna have integrity, um, I know that they're going to love me unconditionally. Then the next and then they have a certain amount of access. Then the people outside of that say they're your your friends. friends or let's say acquaintances, well, my requirements of them are less. It's like I don't necessarily need them to, I don't really necessarily need to trust them or I don't necessarily need them to be kind, but I do need them to have integrity. So you know you have these layers of um of boundaries that allow access to you. And so the challenge comes is by saying is having to say no.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

And the story I heard which I thought was was a really great one was uh a a guy um he was talking about a his car and his wife would be able to come to him and say can I use the car? Absolutely course the car's yours doesn't matter and she can use the car. Other people it's like well no hold on a minute you don't have the same access to me and what I have so I'm gonna actually know you can't use the car. But what I might be able to do is let me help you rent a car so you've got transport. And then the next layer out would be well I'm sorry but you're probably gonna have to find someone else to help you with the car because I I can't help you. So the people closest to us have more access to us. The people further from us have less access to us. And that's really what boundaries do is protect the boundaries that are closer to you. So me saying no to uh to another weekday evening meeting is actually me saying yes to my family. And I prefer to focus on the yeses what am I saying yes to in this rather than what I'm saying no to yeah the no becomes part of it but the yes is the bit where the power lies because it shows where I actually put my values and if my value is family then I'm gonna have to say no to some other things and say yes to family which is which is super powerful.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah yeah how how does the book guide people to designing a a a life that works then or or or or thriving James in in in an overview?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah so um I mean I I want to say as to before I go into this you know AI has been a really really great help in writing a book I am not a prolific author but what I have is life experience I have ideas

The Living Rhythm Framework Explained

SPEAKER_01 24:26

um and I'm I'm a creative person. So this has been the AI helping me to kind of navigate what it actually looks like to formulate something that works has been a really interesting process because it's taken all of my life experience and it's created this framework which we call the the living rhythm framework and it's divided up into five sections. So the sections are clarify then you've got define, align, design and sustain. So there's kind of five steps to the process and the first one really is well where am I? Let's clarify exactly where I am talking about the obligations that I have and what are expectations rather than obligations. And a lot of those things arrive as suggestions rather than demands and we say yes to those suggestions and before you know it, you know my obligations have expanded rapidly so it's it's really about clarifying where we're at. Then the next one is defining and in defining is looking at the values that define the way that the decisions that we make and the way that we live and again talking about earlier most people not slowing down enough to even know what their values are this is a massive step in the process because if you don't have a defined value then you will be at the mercy of every circumstance and every opportunity that comes your way so for me values are how I filter every decision. So if something if a if an opportunity comes uh let's let's say we were talking about being in the military earlier for me it was uh as a drummer it was going on tour my value at the time was I value time with my wife I value intimacy and so I had this opportunity to go on tour for three months actually I'm not going to do that because it actually goes against one of my values. So I then filter all everything through my value system. Now again values is one of those interesting things where we can say oh well my value is integrity but yet we don't even define what integrity looks like is it well integrity to what? I I'd probably guess that most people would have integrity pretty high up on their list of values. And yet they will tell themselves that they're going to go to the gym tomorrow morning and then they'll wake up and it's be it'll be raining and they won't go. Well I'm like well that actually undermines your value because integrity is not just to other people or to the law it's integrity to yourself. And so part of the process I take people through is well let's let's start off with let's say a list of 20 values let's whittle it down to five and then let's look at if I was to follow you around with a camera for the next 30 days what would I observe when it comes to your values being lived out not what you say but actually your actions supporting the values that you have. So that's so the other distinction is distinguishing between values and goals. Goals is kind of what you're trying to achieve as opposed to how you live. So that's the kind of defining part then the aligning part is really closing the gap between values and daily habits. So again you have your values but then we have habits that need to support those values. I I know you know so many people have read Atomic habits um and I pull um some of the uh the principles from atomic habits into this and I um I think that's a valuable book to read absolutely because the the habits are things that happen subconsciously that we don't again we don't take time to step back and evaluate them and ask ourselves right what are the habits that I have in my life and how is each one serving me? Is this one uh bringing life to me or is this one bringing death? And an obvious one would be smoking as a habit most people who smoke don't think about literally taking the cigarette out of the packet, sticking in their mouth, taking out the lighter and lighting it that happens automatically almost subconsciously because it's become a habit. So we take time just to really unpack habits that are occurring in their life and what the what is the fruit that that's producing. And then we just take all of that and we start to design right what habits need to be removed what new habits need to be formed what values need to be in place and and I talk in in terms of values of um actualized values and aspired values. So aspired being well yeah I'm I'm I I'm sure I've got integrity as a as a value and um but yet if I was to follow you around I would see you um lying stealing cheating you know I'm like well hold on a minute that might be a value that you aspire to but it's definitely not actually in there in your life so um so designing the designing our life is that whole thing of I'm not going to allow life to happen to me I'm actually going to be intentional about taking the steps to put things in place that are going to allow me to thrive. And then the last step of the process is sustain. And it's really looking at this thing of seasons where you might have values and habits and boundaries and obligations that are all in place and that everything's great for a season. Then the season changes and if we don't change the way we've been living our life then that we're gonna struggle to adapt and that will add pressure and we'll start the the slow quiet um decay or decline in the in the way we're living so this the sustain part is really key by taking time out whether it's quarterly or once a year saying how is this working for me? Is it still working for me?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

And what shifts or changes do I need to put in place to continue to thrive in this new season if if you were to say that one came first, what would it be before you start implementing these sorts of changes or frameworks do you think or something even different? Might it be paused to create the awareness to take these steps or an awareness to actually pause to create this do you think James?

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Well I think it has to start with awareness doesn't it it has to start with a a simple exercise you say that but then if the heart attack creates the pause then then comes awareness you know so yeah that's that's why I kind of asked that question but yeah yeah and it's a tricky one because at the end of the day it has to come to uh it has to come from um

Pausing Before The Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_01 31:29

an understanding that I could keep on doing what I'm doing and not evaluating anything and and life will just happen to me and there will be consequences to it. And that's how most people live their life is it's always in a reactionary state rather than a responsive state or a proactive state. So what I'm encouraging people to do is however you feel your life is going right now, just take some time out. Whether it be an hour I mean start with an hour but I mean if you can take a day out and with a journal and just go through a process of of evaluating where you're at where are you at in your physical health? Where you are you where are you at in your relationships? Are your relationships thriving? Where are you at in your work environment? You know are you somebody who is um literally surviving day to day hating your job when actually it might be time for a change but you just don't have the courage to do it. You know it's all of those questions come in but it is um it's allowing yourself to go through a process of a checkup and an MOT call it what you want but to open yourself up to um self-awareness and self-feedback and then maybe the opportunity to actually ask your closest friends okay I I need you to be really honest with me. How do you see my life? Because again we start we start off with in in the book of uh when people look at us what do they see for a lot of people they see a successful life but they don't realize what's actually happening under the surface for that person. And you know you we hear it in uh the stories of of CEOs who you know they they look like the extremely capable qualified successful human being that everyone puts on a pedestal but every time they get up in the morning they are terrified about going into the workplace because they think they're going to fail. And it's like well okay let's let's step back from that and let's realign ourselves so that we're not uh living in that place of survival. And in fact you could even say it's less than survival because it's definitely having a very negative impact physiologically and psychologically to live in that state all the time. Yeah and and it actually does link in I I love to think of things holistically because I've experienced the effect of stress on my life it affected me physiologically um you know we we need to see we need to see things as holistic we can't say to ourselves right I'm gonna carry on doing this for the next 20 years without thinking that it's not going to impact our bodies and I want to you know when I'm when I'm 80 I want to be I want to be a healthy 80 year old I don't want to be hanging by a thread you know I don't want to be popping pills every every day just to survive the day and live another day. I want to I want to thrive I want to be playing with my grandkids I want to I want to do some surfing or I want to keep mountain biking you know I still want to be playing drums at 80 if I can um so but but to have that as a goal requires things to happen now in your 30s forties and 50s things put in place that prevent the decline as much as possible.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Obviously you know we're we're human beings there is a decline but we can manage it in a way that gives us the best chance of thriving for as long as possible in this human experience that we have um you you you told us about a decision that you made in terms of going away on tour for three months and and I guess that yeah rhythm alludes to things that can change so how do how do we make sure then that we are rolling with those changes rather than staying rigid to to a to a framework or something that used to serve us.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yeah I mean I think you know if we look at specific situations if we talk about seasons of life um and I mentioned kind of doing that check-in either once a quarter or once a year um you know most of the time I think when we do those check-ins it'll be well nothing's really changed you know for for a lot of people they have a career that lasts you know a a fair amount of years if not decades although that's becoming less less common now um and and yeah and then we have seasons

Seasons Of Life And Necessary Winter

SPEAKER_01 36:08

where we're a single person and then we get married and or we we're the partner or and then we have maybe kids come along and in each of those seasons has a different impact on us if we allow it to in a positive way. So you know when when children come along we have the choice to step back assess what's happening in our lives assess the obligations uh the values the habits and the boundaries we have in place and say right is this is this now serving me now I'm with this person full time no it's like well I might need to make some adjustments here to my level of obligations I might need to go and have what we call a a stakeholder conversation go to my boss and say look things have changed for me I was you know up until recently I was single I was able to give 110% of who I am to this business. I'm now with somebody and I want that to be successful and so for that to be successful I need to can you help me here reassess what are my real obligations what are the things that I've took taken on as expectations that maybe I need to let go of and that can be quite a scary conversation but those are the kind of things that in terms of seasons we have we need to recognize and and not just bury our head in the sand and hope it's going to go away but actually do something about it and and have have courage to realign with a new season. Interestingly enough um with this whole thing of seasons I I um with my one of my previous coaches talked to me about seasons being you know spring, summer, autumn and winter and what do those seasons in life look like you know spring is when you know new life is springing forth and buds are coming on the trees and things are coming out from the ground and sprouting forth and it's a it's a really exciting season where where all this this stuff is is is being birthed within us. And then you know summer is is that season of effort intensifies the work's in full motion um and it's probably the most demanding push phase. And then we go into the season of of autumn where we get to reap the benefits of all of that hard work. But then we get this season which no one really wants to embrace and it's the season of winter where things actually need to die back and things need to be stripped away things need to be pruned off and if that doesn't happen the growth in the next season is limited. You know if you if you do gardening I'm I'm a terrible gardener for me it seems like everything I plant dies fairly rapidly but um using an analogy you know we if we don't prune back roses the next the next year we will have a limited amount of flowers. Same with apple trees if you don't prune the apple trees or any fruit trees you know you don't have the same level of growth and in fact when you prune back you get an increase in fruit the following year. So pruning stripping back allowing things to die off is a massively important part of life that very very few people actually do because it feels painful. You know there are there can be things in our lives that appear to be good but actually don't serve us like they used to serve us before and maybe we need to jettison that maybe there are relationships in our life that in a particular season have really served us and have brought us life and now actually they're bringing death maybe that relationship needs to be pruned off. So you know those seasons are again really important that we take the time to assess which season we are in because if we're in a season of winter and we're trying to trying for it to be summer there's gonna be some real tension there that is gonna that is not going to serve us well.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah. James I'm gonna I'm gonna start to wrap this up by I'm curious if there's something that we've not talked about in regards to to this that that you feel important to mention if there's anything that springs to your mind.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

I think the the most important thing and it's we I have mentioned it so it's not something I haven't mentioned but it's almost like reiterating this thing where don't allow life to just carry on and and happening to

Mastermind Invite And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 40:50

you. Take the time out to assess where you're at and I actually I mean this is a bit of a plug from my my mastermind that I'm running but from the um seventh sorry the 6th of July so that's the Monday evening British Standard Time 7 o'clock I'm running a seven week program that uses the book as the outline it uses those five steps so that's clarify define align design and sustain and we're going to be looking at digging in deep with those kind of um with each of those topics and starting to design the life that is actually going to work for you. And so I just wanted to kind of highlight that because that is available I've got I've captured at 15 people so it's not a massive mastermind. It's a small group so this is the first time I'm running it um so it's it's on a 50% off at the moment. So if I can highlight that that's great. But I I think more than anything else if people don't do that is just starting to build on a level of self-awareness that you can ask these questions and actually start writing things down, doing voice notes or whatever it takes but doing some kind of journaling exercise where you're starting to become aware of the things that are running your life you know life life is is about thriving but that doesn't happen by accident. That is something that is very intentional. So yeah I would I would love to see people on that journey where their relationships are thriving their kids know them and want to hang out with them and they've got friendships that are thriving as well because they're giving time to those those things are important. No one on their deathbed wishes they'd spent more time at the office. It's so much about relationships and relationships are the things that mean the most to us but are also probably the most fragile things in our lives as well that require tending and uh pouring love into so yeah yeah love yourself.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Love it well thanks for that James and yeah I'll I'll put a link um to in the show notes to to that so people can connect that if um should they so wish to but mate it's um it's been awesome to to spend a bit of time with you and congratulations on getting this out and into the world um yeah and uh I look forward to meeting you um hopefully in August in Balath when I'm next there and um yeah I've enjoyed this and I will listen back to this over the summer. Thank you. Thanks